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Oh dear, success is going to Farage's head

(40 Posts)
claig Wed 12-Nov-14 10:06:46

Farage starting to lose the plot and think he is a whizz on foreign policy.

"He added: “It was Ludendorff who gave Hitler credibility. Yet none of this would happened if someone had made Ludendorff surrender unconditionally.”

Farage, lecturing on ‘the effects of the Great War and the legacy to contemporary Europe’, was this year’s speaker in the Tom Olsen lecture series, which dates back to 1991 and is named after the distinguished Fleet Street journalist, leader, writer, editor and author.

The Ukip leader, whose hobbies have included touring first world war battlefields with a group of friends, said: “The consensus is that the Treaty of Versailles was too punitive. It led directly to German hyper-inflation, which in turn led to seven million unemployed, and which in turn led to National Socialism.

“But I don’t actually think Versailles was the mistake. I believe the real mistake, the anniversary of which we remember today, was the armistice.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/11/farage-ukip-armistice-hitler-german-surrender-first-world-war

Of course the punitive Versailles Treaty was the mistake and not the Armistice.

claig Wed 12-Nov-14 10:16:36

"Britain and its allies should have continued the first world war for another six weeks in order to achieve an unconditional German surrender, even at the cost of another 100,000 casualties, according to the leader of Ukip, Nigel Farage."

Back of a fag packet planning with people's lives.

Isitmebut Thu 13-Nov-14 16:07:22

In answer to your thread title, SOMETHING has gone to his head - and it's not German 'bitter'.

All this P.R. work to try and show 'Farage the statesman', and then he shows himself up trying to 'go to war' with that nice Mr Miliband after he mentions UKIP within his latest relaunch today.

The 'oi you, come and 'av a go, if your big enough' challenge is the sort of language you would expect from a BNP supporter, having first had a few too many beers down the pub.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-calls-out-ed-miliband-with-come-and-have-a-go-letter-following-labour-leaders-promise-to-take-apart-ukip-9859126.html

Mr Farage did at least put 'thems fighting words' dowm on nice headed UKIP notepaper, but I wonder if this was an idea before, or after his lunch?

claig Thu 13-Nov-14 17:09:26

Fantastic tactics by Farage the statesman. Ed Miliband said he could "take apart" the Tories and LibDems, and that is fair enough, but where hubris got the better of him, where boldness took him too far, where he lost his marbles, is when he suggested fo "friends" that he could also "take apart" the party of the people, UKIP.

“The Tories have no answers to the discontent people feel,” he told an audience of party activists and members of the media. “Ukip have wildly wrong answers to that discontent. And who knows what one can say about the Liberal Democrats? Friends , I say we can take this lot apart and it is time we did.”

Did none of his PPEs suggest to Ed, the PPE, that one must walk before one can run, that "taking apart" the Tories and LibDems is doable, but taking on UKIP is suicidal, for it means taking on the people?

Farage has called Ed's bluff. He has said what the people of Rochester on the streets and the pubs would themselves say, "come and have a go" if you think you are lard enough, and have a one-to-one debate on live TV.

Why is this a winning strategy for Farage? Because he knows that Ed will bottle it and say that he meant no such thing where UKIP were concerned. Michael Crick of Channel 4 News may possibly now hound Ed, constantly asking him if he is going to have a go against the party of the people. We all know he won't because if he does he will lose. All this talk of "fairer" society to "friends" is just more PPE spin. It has no substance, it has zero content just like the new line of "zero/zero society".

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 09:08:43

Claig …… outside the ‘Cult of Farage’, where us mere mortals worry about what sort of reprobate is representing us in parliament - and thereby entrusted to make our laws - the ability to play well with others and not start a fight with other politicians is prerequisite.

Farage who also told Miliband ‘I’m going to park my tanks on your lawn’, is NO potential statesman, he just comes across as a thug, a school yard bully, who will take a geeks school dinner money at every opportunity – but will still assume he is still his friend and be utterly convinced he doing a public service to toughen him up, “make him stronger”.

Farage is clearly a political sandwich short of a lunch box, as similar to a UKIP manifesto/policies, the ink is hardly dry on a Farage pronouncement, before the public can see it is not worth the paper it is printed on HAVING JUST SAID THAT HE WOULD DO A DEAL WITH LABOUR, and be on first name terms. lol

“(Nov 2014) Nigel Farage: UKIP could do deal with Labour”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30029004

"UKIP could support a minority Labour government after the next general election, Nigel Farage has said."

“Asked by the New Statesman if he could back Ed Miliband as prime minister, he said: "I'd do a deal with the Devil if he got me what I wanted."

“The Conservatives have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017. Labour will only offer a vote if Brussels demands fresh powers.”

“In the question and answer style article, Mr Farage was asked what he would do if Mr Miliband said to him: "Look, Nigel, can I have your eight to ten MPs in the coalition and we give you an in-out referendum?"

“Mr Farage replied: "That would depend when the referendum was, and the terms."

“But pressed on whether he was ruling a coalition out, he replied: "Of course not."

Of course in the real world, the chances of Labour deciding it needed the far rights UKIP’s help, when there would bound to be more ideologically friendly MP’s, individually, or as a party, within the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens to vote on Labour policies is zero-zero to sod all.

But it just confirms that Farage by his own actions is a cross between a Bully Beef and a Desperate Dan and policy wise, with more ‘flip flops’ than those pairs worn by the entire Lib Dem membership, he can never be trusted in politics as like any thug, you never know what policy, or who in or out of UKIP, will get a good 'ol kicking next.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 09:22:49

Labour won't be able to do a deal with the SNP because

"I'll demand ANOTHER Scottish referendum in return for propping up a Labour government, says Alex Salmond"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2832714/I-ll-demand-Scottish-referendum-return-propping-Labour-government-says-Alex-Salmond.html

Miliband can not afford to risk that.

Farage is a statesman who has beliefs. He is prepared to do a deal with Labour but he is not prepared to be insulted by a teenage graduate from Oxford who is trying to pretend that he can "take apart" the party of the people. All Farage has said is "come and try" if you think you can. When the people heard Miliband playing tough, they just laughed and when they heard that the statesman said "come and have a go", they let out a cheer.

Farage is not for play acting, not for games, not for Milibandesque Wallace and Gromit grabbing of headlines through trying to pretend that Miliband can "take apart" the people. Farage just says "come and have a go".

Farage will do a deal with Labour, but he expects them to be serious, to mean what they say. If they want to try to "take apart" UKIP, then let the politically correct PPEs and spinners "come and have a go". That's all Farage has said. He is a serious politician, he is saying let's put the Labour posturing to bed once and for all.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 09:36:13

Farage has not criticised Miliband for saying that he can "take apart" the Conservative Party because Charlie Brown and Snoopy could do that. It's child's play to "take part" the modernisers. But to insult the public's intelligence and pretend that he can "take apart" the People's Party is just laughable.

No party has dared to take on UKIP directly and none of them can because it will spell their doom, their "high noon". They all have PPEs, they all have highly paid spinners and teenagers in think tanks, but all of those are useless against the people.

Farage has said to Miliband that he is available for a debate in which Miliband can struggle to see if he can take the people apart anytime after November 24th. Before that Farage is busy, not talking, but "taking apart" the modernisers in Rochester after they said they had thrown "everything we've got at it".

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 10:02:34

Miliband's gang of Oxford graduates, PPEs, politically correct climate change champions etc could never finish off the Oxford graduates in the Tory Party, which is why some polls have the Tories higher than Labour at the moment.

There is only one party that can finish off the Tories forever and take them apart and that is the People's Party. Labour MP, Tom Watson, understands that

"UKIP victory in Rochester by-election could spell end for Conservative Party"

"I believe that a win that gives UKIP their second MP threatens the very future of the Conservative Party for the first time in over a century and a half of electoral supremacy."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-victory-rochester-by-election-could-4581994

Miliband must not make the mistake of making promises he cannot keep, of pretending that a gang of naive politically correct PPEs, champagne socialists and teenage spinners can beat the people.

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 11:40:18

Dear, dear, me ..more UKIP propaganda over factual quality; you post reams of often puerile labels/reasons why existing Westminster politicians must be replaced by a similar far right nationalist part to those growing throughout Europe since the 2007 financial/economic crash.

Yet with no more than a cursory knowledge of UKIP’s roots, its one man attraction, it’s belief thick politicians make better ones, it’s core policies depending on the wind direction and curious self delusion that poaching a few Conservative MP’s to win seats represents ‘the end’ of the parliamentary blue team.

By-elections are for giving the government a good kicking, especially by party(s) taking away the excessive government/taxpayer debt ‘punchbowl’, and if a UKIP, having failed to win a single Westminster seat with UKIP ‘home grown’ candidates are getting their General Election jollies by poaching a well known sitting Conservative MP (that then has to be replace with a new candidate without a constituency record) – you and UKIP could well be disappointed in 2015.

I’ll tell you why Farage saw ‘red’, it was due to Miliband saying in his speech UKIP is against a State funded only NHS, and Farage realised that HIS NHS CAT WAS OUT OF THE BAG as from now until 2015 ‘the people’ will ask themselves ‘what is the POINT of a UKIP’.

A UKIP/Farage who whinges but could never have done a thing about the EU/immigration, who are anti whole Public Sector as detailed in their 2010 GE manifesto and for heavy privatisation of the NHS that the last Labour administration took to new highs.- and as Farage is a self attributed military strategist, _he saw the best form of defence, was ATTACK._*

“Nigel Farage caught on video suggesting NHS should be run privately”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-caught-on-video-suggesting-the-nhs-should-be-run-privately-9857389.html

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 11:57:06

Re a 2015 coalition, the 2015-2020 train crash of a parliament, with no party with a parliamentary majority, as UKIP are taking Conservative votes by at least 2 to 1 over Labour, it is more likely that Labour even around current (and 2010) 29% polling levels WILL form the next government.

As even if a 15-19% poll UKIP does not win loads of seats, similar to 2010 when they had 3% of the vote, UKIP will stop the Conservatives with 36% of the votes in 2010, becoming the largest party, never mind getting a majority.

Therefore the Labour led socialist block will have ideological control, but unlikely to form a formal coalition, as previously confirmed by Salmond, and Sturgon today - and common sense with the Lib Dems who have probably learned their lesson lashing themselves to an unpopular successful government, never mind one to take us on ‘The Road to Europe’.

Get ready for a 2015 parliament of 'special interests', staying in the EU without a referendum and trying to sort out UK devolution.

So any Farage THOUGHTS of being in a coalition with the Conservatives who have the electoral boundary lines against them, or a Labour Party surrounded by similar and won’t need the far right stink in their midst, is la-la-land.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 12:06:22

You are seriously underestimating the number of MPs that UKIP will get. You have to understand the people, they are not like the BBC and the media and the politically correct Westminster bubble portray them.

"One of the problems is that the Conservatives, buzzing about in their conference bubble in Birmingham, oversold themselves as the natural victors. Back in Westminster, Tracey Crouch — the MP for next-door Chatham and Aylesford — briefed colleagues on the constituency and argued that its voters were ‘more thoughtful’ than those in Clacton, and would therefore vote Tory. Reckless himself told the Ukip conference when he defected that he really needed his new party’s help because ‘Rochester and Strood is not Clacton’."

www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9368742/the-tories-are-paying-the-price-for-their-swagger-over-the-rochester-by-election/

These people do not understand the people at all. Even Reckless doesn't understand them because he came from the same Tory milieu. None of them have got a clue and the Labour ones are exactly the same as the Tory ones - after all lots of them have the same PPE from Oxford. That is why there is pure panic in Westminster circles - none of them have got a clue, they don't know what to do.

The people have had enough. The game is up. It's over.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 12:15:01

"Instead, when The Spectator followed Reckless around a formerly Labour ex–council estate this week, the voters who opened their doors to him were largely supportive. One woman launched into a textbook soliloquy about ‘that Cameron who doesn’t keep his promises’, which the Ukip candidate loved, until she squinted suspiciously at him and asked: ‘But how do I know you’re not the same as the rest of them?’"

The people have had enough of all of these politically correct clones, these preachers, lecturers, hectorers who think they can spin and fool good, honest, hardworking people.

They all want a party that is "not like the rest" and that is why support for the People's Party is going through the roof.

Miliband has now pretended he can challenge the people, he has said UKIP has got away with it too long, and that

"Friends , I say we can take this lot apart and it is time we did.”

But this is not Oxford, this is not some student PPE seminar, some abstract teenage think tank spin doctor theory, this is reality, this is the people and he is going to lose just like the Tories will lose in Rochester, a seat their PPEs thought they could quite easily hold.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 12:30:39

"Speaking about his recent visit to Mr Miliband’s seat, Mr Farage said: “The welcome I received was eye opening. No, not everybody told me they were going to vote for Ukip next year, but everybody told me they were utterly fed up with the Labour Party which they had always believed was supposed to be on their side.

“Not a single person had a good word for Ed Milliband, not as a man of course, but as a politician. Essentially, Labour is losing its heartlands.”

One Labour source last night conceded that Mr Miliband could come under pressure from Ukip in his constituency.

Mr Farage accused the Labour Party of using the north as a “a dumping ground for their gilded, untried youth, reckoning that the voters were so in the bag that they'd would vote for a proverbial pig if it wore a red rosette”.

“The people of Doncaster, and a large swathe of Northern constituencies are utterly fed up with the seminar room, teenage politics of the modern Labour Party and they are increasingly turning to Ukip to provide a real alternative,” Mr Farage added.

Mr Farage told his recent party conference, which was held in Doncaster, that Ukip is “parking our tanks on the Labour party's lawn”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11219710/Ukip-plot-to-unseat-Ed-Miliband-at-the-general-election.html

Remember the shock when Portillo lost in 1997 and was toppled from his seat?

Big names will be toppled in this election in May - Labour, Conservative and LibDem. The bookies are already paying out to UKIP backers in the Rochester byelection. This was UKIP's 271st most winnable seat.

No seat in the country is safe any more and it is all because the people have had enough, they want people to represent them who are not "like the rest of them".

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 12:36:58

"they were utterly fed up with the Labour Party which they had always believed was supposed to be on their side"

This is what the whole election is now about. Who is on our side? The side of the good, decent, hardworking people.

We all know it's not this Oxford clique of cronies, champagne socialists, millionaires, barristers and politically correct luvvies.

It's not about a penny off tax here or there, it's much more fundamental than that.

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 13:10:45

Claig …. Even Mr Wheeler from the FTSE betting company IG, who is probably your main strategist and largest funder, who decided to hedge his UKIP bet by buying sitting Conservative MP’s, has said that picking up Westminster seats in by-elections are one thing, holding onto them in general elections, another.

But in the meantime, by giving UKIP their first MPs, it projects momentum to the ‘kipper troops with nothing of substance to offer ‘different’ on the door steps other than the name-calling of existing MPs.

Look at the FACTS over and above your ‘issues’ with class and education, including the FACT UKIP moan a lot, BUT HAVE NO SOLUTIONS in mainstream issues effecting everyone’s daily lives, different to those in Westminster.

Ergo if a UKIP group of talent less muppets while outside Westminster ‘sticking it to the Westminster elite’ within, then get to be in Westminster, as there is no mainstream issues/budget deficit ‘reset’ button - UKIP will BECOME the ‘Westminster muppets’, without the little grey cells between them to find their way around Westminster, never mind do anything remotely useful to those that elected them.

And while PREVIOUS electoral results are only a guide, there has been a trend to show ‘the people’ might believe voting for UKIP MEPs will bring us out of the EU, when it comes to trusting the UKIP domestic policy flip-flopsters running the country, UKIP support flakes.

In 2004, UKIP won 12% of the European Election vote, but only 2.20% of the 2005 General Election vote.

In 2009 UKIP won 17% of the European Election vote, but only 3.10% of the 2010 General Election vote.

So while the financial sector warn of taking future assumptions ‘on previous performance figures’ - with no 2015 reason for the UK electorate TO BELIEVE a UKIP/Farage could be trusted running UK domestic bath water, never mind a fragile economy – come the General Election an economically illiterate UKIP now getting in the way of an EU Referendum as well, would be foolish to count their new MP chickens.

UKIP playing the Westminster long game won’t mind that, content they have damaged the Conservative Party, and similar to Labour pre 2010, think that by allowing another party into government (this time, a Labour government), to blow up the economy and all the social chaos that brings, it will be good for THEM at the next general election in 2020. Two ‘parties of the people’, yeah right.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793688/farage-backs-miliband-ukip-want-labour-win-election-fear-cameron-win-eu-referendum.html

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 13:39:08

Claig …. Please answer the following question, re Farage an ex city commodity broker, no doubt having enjoyed Private Health Care from the likes of BUPA etc – from NOW until the General Election are you seriously suggesting that voters will trust a UKIP that in 2010 was so aggressively anti Public Sector within their own general election manifesto - but now have video proof that Farage is really anti free healthcare?

“At-a-glance: UKIP general election manifesto”
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm
• Reduce public sector to 1997 size, diverting two million jobs to manufacturing and industry
• Freeze public sector pensions, bringing them "back into line with typical private sector pension provision".

“Nigel Farage caught on video suggesting NHS should be run privately”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-caught-on-video-suggesting-the-nhs-should-be-run-privately-9857389.html

“Ukip leader Nigel Farage has been caught on film telling party supporters that the NHS should move away from the state-funded model, and towards a US-style insurance-based system.”

“The footage shows the Ukip leader say he would feel more “comfortable” if the UK’s healthcare was opened up to the “marketplace”.

“His comments, made during his Common Sense tour of the UK in September 2012, clash with the party’s current line that it is opposed to the privatisation of the NHS.”

I see this no-quibble-someone-elses-fault photographic proof of the man with a health plan, an electoral game changer AFTER Rochester - and if I was you, I'd lower your expectations

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 13:50:38

Wheeler has underestimated the mood of the people. Even Farage is stunned by the support he gets everywhere he goes. He never expected it, because remember just 5 years ago, he never got such support. Things have changed so much because people have had enough.

'UKIP domestic policy flip-flopsters'

UKIP policy is changing because UKIP are reflecting the will of the people. UKIP will end up being quite a left wing party but it will not be politically correct. It is a people's party so the people will come above business and that is why its policies are changing. Farage's views don't hold sway because new people are joining, but it is hoped that his common touch, his non-politically correct way will always drive it.

Louise Bours used to be a Labour councillor. She is in charge of health. The only politically correct slip-up she has made is when she said on Question Time that she would consider looking at minimum alcohol pricing - a Tory modernisation core policy. That was probably just a left-over from her nanny-state Labour days. Hopefully UKIP will never become "just like all the rest of them". Here is what she says on UKIP's policy changes

"Louise Bours MEP, UKIP’s health chief said: “Not only is it a downright lie to say we want to privatise the NHS, it is also the height of hypocrisy coming from the party responsible for giving £10bn of NHS money a year to profit making investors.

“They are lying because they are desperate, they have been unmasked as being as disinterested in working people as the Tories, and real people are dropping them by the truck load.

“Just today we hear that Milliband is the most unpopular Labour leader in history, even among his own supporters.

“What Labour don’t seem to understand is that policies develop and change over time, and the comments he is relying on to lie to the public are two years old.

“I’m baffled as to why he doesn’t understand that policies can change, since his own party have changed so many of their own.

“Last year they reversed their child benefit policy, a year ago they were calling it racist to reduce immigration, in the last couple of months they have reversed their policy of not wanting to renegotiation with the EU.

“I welcome these changes, if they are genuine, and that is what politics is about – developing policies as circumstances and public opinion changes.

www.louiseboursmep.co.uk/

'So while the financial sector warn of taking future assumptions ‘on previous performance figures’ '

It is no use looking at the past to determine the future. Sometimes there are earthquakes and sea changes and we are going through one now.

Do you remember Labour in 1997? They had been out of power for nearly 20 years and they were led by a teenage looking public school boy with a PPE from Oxford called Tony Blair. The press called him "Bambi" he was so naive. He had never been in government, had never run a department or had any real expereince of running a country. But it didn't matter because all the people had had enough. We nearly all voted Labour and it was a landslide even though the Conservatives had the advantage of a good economy etc. But we had all had enough of them.

It is the same now, we have all had enough of all of them, the entire Oxford clique of both parties. They can't believe that they could possibly lose Rochester, because they don't understand that people have had enough of them.

“Rochester is such a lovely place. When you walk round here, with all the spires and gates and history of Charles Dickens, it has a Trollopian feel,” one MP said, referring to the Victorian novelist Anthony Trollope who chronicled the political life of the imaginary cathedral town of Barchester. The MP added: “You think how can we possibly lose?”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/12/rochester-byelection-gets-personal-ukip-versus-tories

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 13:55:54

"Please answer the following question, re Farage an ex city commodity broker, no doubt having enjoyed Private Health Care from the likes of BUPA etc – from NOW until the General Election are you seriously suggesting that voters will trust a UKIP that in 2010 was so aggressively anti Public Sector within their own general election manifesto - but now have video proof that Farage is really anti free healthcare?"

Absolutely. It doesn't matter. People trust Farage, they think he is "on our side", "one of us", "not like the rest of them", "not a professional politician", so they accept that he thought things out on the back of a fag packet but that he changes and adapts and listens to advice from Louise Bours and others in his party. People think that Farage has "our interests at heart" and that "he will not let us down" like all the Oxford clique do. It doesn't matter if he changes his views, it is even more of a positive for him that he admits he got things wrong. We think Farage "has his heart in the right place" and that is why we back him above the Oxford clique.

It doesn't matter what names they call him, he is "one of us" and by calling him names, they are calling us names and that spells disaster for them.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 14:02:36

The Oxford clique, the crew of cronies aren't "one of us" and never can be, they are so politically correct. That means they can't "kid us" and "fool us" and "spin us" any more. It is fatal to try and "take apart" Farage because he is everything that they aren't, he is "one of us" and by taking him on, they are taking us on, and they can never beat us.

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 14:10:18

The NHS will be a game-changer as there is no way back

As while UKIP propaganda across the social media offers quote after quote of people that agrees with them and lies on what UKIP believes OTHER politicians stand for - we now have Farage's mug in living colour telling supporters what he REALLY thinks on the NHS.

UKIP is still a one man band, as there were too many people no longer there who now know 'its his way, or the highway'.

And if that is what he thinks on something as key to our society as the NHS, who could possibly trust him in any other UK domestic policy issue no matter WHAT he says in public?

Farage should be left in Brussels, playing to the gallery with stunts like the UKIP 24 MEPs turning their backs on the new Commission - its expensive to the taxpayer hoping for regional help from the EU - but at least it keeps his dangerous elitist views out of Westminster.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 14:21:20

'The NHS will be a game-changer as there is no way back'

That is the rubbish that Ed Miliband's PPEs and Oxford crew have told him. It is nonsense and by following that they are goiing to lose and they won't even understand why they lost.

They believe focus groups and opinion polls, they don't understand the people and they don't understand that people don't always say what they think and sometimes can't even articulate what they think.

People feel and this Oxford clique haven't got a clue what people feel because they are not like us in their Westminster PPE bubble of privilege and expenses paid for by the hardworking, decent people who form the majority of this country.

'we now have Farage's mug in living colour telling supporters what he REALLY thinks on the NHS.'

Can't you see that it will have no effect? People won't care because they expect Farage to get things wrong etc, but the crucial difference between Farage and the professional clique of PPEs and politicians is that Farage's heart is in the right place.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 14:27:09

The Tory modernisers are absolutely useless because they are so out of touch with ordinary people as they come from Eton and Oxford etc, but even they will be able to make mincemeat of poor old Ed's NHS strategy by pointing at the NHS in Wales and Labour's last hope, the so-called "saintly" Andy Burnham, will struggle when the modernisers, as useless and incompetent as they are, bring up Mid Staffs.

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 14:42:45

Labour's NHS strategy won't even save them in their once socialist heartlands of Scotland. The Scottish people don't trust them on the NHS. Just imagine what the English people (particularly the South of England) think about Labour and whether they trust a word those politically correct Oxbridge spinners say.

Isitmebut Fri 14-Nov-14 14:58:23

Good god, it is not 'out of touch' to solvee the problems of today, rather than offer UKIP 'magic dust'.

the cult choses to believe its own hype, that those in UKIP without a top education can solve the problems of the UK, and no doubt the whole of Europe - with their version of 'modernizing', where 'the man with a health plan' changes his policies with his underwear.

UKIP clearly replace ‘luvvies’ with ‘dummies’, as the powers within UKIP without the benefits of ‘PPEs’ or an ‘Eaton’ education cannot formulate at any General Election a joined-up-thinking plan on the economy with our annual budget deficit over spending, the lack of housing, how to create jobs, or protect the NHS with all the pressures on it.

It is one thing for a UKIP Party leader of your cult to DISOWN every policy as leader he signed off on;

“UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire (2010) general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

It is another thing to try and wipe that UKIP policy “modernizing”, and previous inflammatory immigration speeches, right off the face of this Earth.

“UKIP spokesman Michael Heaver confirmed that the party’s 2010 election manifesto had been removed. While the party now opposes the planned high-speed north-south rail line, the 2010 document advocated building three new routes. “We’re in the process of updating everything,” Heaver said by telephone. “We’re going through a policy review.”
www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/u-k-parties-prepare-for-2015-by-erasing-web-histories.html
“Both these are outdone by the U.K. Independence Party, which has no record of any speeches made before March this year. The earliest news item is leader Nigel Farage’s New Year 2013 message.

Build three new train lines, not have one - no EU, but won't support a Conservative referendum - no TTIP, need more NHS privatization etc etc etc - and THIS is what 'the people' need, a bunch of half-wits who can't make up their mind??

claig Fri 14-Nov-14 15:12:32

You don't need a PPE to run the country, in fact it is better if you don't have one. You need to understand the people, to listen to the people, to be able to communicate with the people and to have a vision and leadership skills that can set a direction. That is what Farage has got.

Even the people at Left Foot Backward understand what is going on.

"The Farage factor, rather than right wing policy, is winning UKIP votes

The assumption that UKIP is gaining in popularity because of its policies on immigration and Europe has been undermined by recent Lord Ashcroft polling.

The research shows that, rather than hard-line policies on immigration and Europe attracting voters, it actually has more to do with the Farage factor.

Lord Ashcroft’s poll findings show that, out of those willing to consider voting for the right-wing Eurosceptic party, only 7 per cent saw the statement “UKIP is the best party on defending Britons interests in Europe” as the most important factor when deciding whether to vote for the party.

Voters instead attached more importance to the phrase “UKIP’s heart is in the right place” (19 per cent saw this as most important), and “UKIP is on the side of people like me” (18 per cent most important).

These findings contradict, at least in part, the idea that UKIP’s rising popularity is a cue for the three major parties to tack to the right.

It does, however, perhaps illustrate one thing Nigel Farage: acting more like a normal human being and less like an automaton. The three main party leaders could perhaps learn from this."

leftfootforward.org/2014/01/the-farage-factor/

And the Tory modernisers are clueless and don't understand it because they don't understand the people. They think it is about immigration and John Major has begged Germany to help the modernisers out over immigration. But even if Germany do throw the modernisers a lifeline, it won't help them, because it is not about immigration at all.

It won't change anything because it is much more fundamental than immigration. It is about "who is on our side?". And the Farage factor is that he is "on our side". The people aren't as stupid as the PPEs think and no amount of spin will convince the people otherwise and that is why there is panic in elite circles. They fear it may be all over bar the counting. Bookies are already paying UKIP backers out in the Rochester byelection and the vote has not even taken place.

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