"Terrorists are great and being a terrorist makes you handsome"

[Tinker]

Will it soon be an offence to say this? What, exactly, is the "glorification" of terrorism?

[Enid]

lol

[dinosaur]

it is going to be hard to define, isn't it?

In my half-assed teenage way, I used to sport a badge that had a picture of Ulster on it and the words "Ireland - England's Vietnam?"

Wonder if that would not amount to "glorifying" terorism?

[Tinker]

Woman on Newsnight last night dismissed JP's questions by saying it was "obvious". And a jury would know. But we're potential jurors and I don't know. Plus, ahem, free speech?

[tarantula]

brilliant title Tinker I wondered that too. at what point does a reasoned debate about WHY these people turn to terrorism and what can be done about teh underlying causes of terrorism eg poverty lack of fair trade etc become 'glorification of terrorism'.

could you get arrested for saying eg 'Dunno why America never expected somethign like 9/11 before?' or 'If our government support a war that kills millions of innocent civilians is it any wonder that the some people of that country in their state of grief might see American civilians as a legitimate target?' or even 'If you alienate a group of young people from society adn treat them as failures then they are going to be prone to violent acts as a way of proving their worth'

Are these statements supporting terrorism or merely trying to understnad why someone would do such a thing because surely in order to stop something you need to have an understandig of why it is happening.

[Heathcliffscathy]

the worst thing of all is that even if said glorification is not intentional it is still a criminal offence.

think this is probably the scariest development of the 'war on terror' so far.

[Tinker]

It's a scary development but is so nebulous that it's almost pointless. All bluster. Incitement to terrorism, I can see but glorification? And, it just means Islamic doesn't it? If anyone started saying the Baader Meinhof gang were cool no-one would get het up would they? Posters of Che Guevara?

[dinosaur]

Nelson Mandela was regarded as a terrorist by that mad old bag Thatcher...

[Heathcliffscathy]

tinker, thing is it means that most people become arrestable if they have any political views...and therefore as a piece of legislation it's open to massive abuse now and in the future.

dino...one man's terrorist is another man's freedome fighter...

[sharklet]

Its worrying that it gives a great deal of leeway to the police and the courts. Does it draw a line between sympathising, condoning and actively encouraging. I don't really think just glorifying is a really useful word for this type of thing.

It is concerning.

[Caligula]

pmsl at this thread title.

[Blu]

All those T shirts with the very-glamorous Che Guevara will have to go!

[Caligula]

Gosh DS has got 2 of those Che T-shirts. D'you think he'll be arrested?

[sharklet]

Reading through the details of what Blair is proposing its a lot loke having our very own Patriot Act - seems he's hanging off Bush's coat tails again!

[edam]

It would be laughable if it wasn't potentially so scary. It's censorship, isn't it? An attempt to shut down any discussion about the causes of terrorism - or about the failings of any state. Because in any dispute between a state and the people it rules, the state can call those people terrorists - so someone could fall foul of those laws for writing about Burma, for instance, or Tibet.

The Nelson Mandela test is a good one - if any of these laws would have prevented the overthrow of apartheid, they are bad laws and should not be brought into being.

[sharklet]

The only thing about the "Nelson Mandela Test" as Ken Livingstone calls it is that Nelson Mandela did what he did and it WAS illegal at the time it was the very fact that he did his time and returned with dignity that gave him the well deserved respect he has today. Nelson Mandela alone did not overturn apartheid. If the laws in South Africa had been more tolerant then the inequalities there would never have been addressed. The very reason apartheid was overthrown in the way it was was becasue it was such a radical thing.

When people are fighting for thier freedoms as they percieve them, honestly the laws won't make a difference to them they will fight all the same. Women's suffrage is another example. I honestly don't think the Nelson Manedala test bears much weight at all. If you are going to say that then you can't have any laws pertaining to terrorism and combating it.

As much as the whole thing concerns me, I am aware that we can't have it both ways.

Lastly if our country ever became a regime which was as in dire need of overturning as South Arica was in the days of apartheid the laws of the land would be so different and very much more restrictive. Unless we are suggesting this is a step in that direction which I do not believe it is. I'm not sure there is really an answer to tackling terror and the current predicament we find our selves in and balancing with making everyone happy and not voilating at least someone's right to privacy, freedom of speech etc.

I really think its a catch 22....

[Chandra]

I have seen a baby with a Che Guevara bib. Surely, that didn't reflects his views does it?

[sharklet]

I guess it makes a lot of the US political elite lawbreakers here too. Maybe Bush et al won't be granted entry next time he visits for supporting the IRA and Sinn Fein?

[Blu]

Anyone who celebrates Bonfire Night will be arrested....

[Blu]

I don't understand this rash of legislation which is just a messy re-hash of laws which are in -place anyway. Surely anyone who was genuinely encouraging people to take part in terrorism (by glamourising or other means) could be done for 'inciting violence', couldn't they?

[sharklet]

Good point Blu.

Damn we'll even be arrested for singing along to "Free Nelson Mandela" ;)

[sharklet]

O focurse they could - which is why we are back to the Patriot Act and Tony Blair leaping to attentnion as Bush's little mini me!

[Caligula]

Yep. Why bother using laws that are already there, when you can make new ones up, that can be used to lock up anyone you feel like?

Looks like an awful lot of St.Patrick's Day parties might be illegal. After all, singing along to rebel songs probably qualifies as glorifying terrorism.

[sharklet]

Thinking on it it even makes some of our lullabies illegal "speed bonny boat like a bird on the wing, over the sea to skye..."

Hmmmm

[tarantula]

Well there will be alot of pleased people round my way then caligula My singing was never anything to write home about

[peacedove]

"thing is it means that most people become arrestable if they have any political views..."

precisely, welcome to the world of third world dictators.