Flexible working refusal

[Hilzy]

I am so upset and need advice. I work in the nhs admins. I requested for flexible working as am a mum of 3, ages 1,3 and 6. I explained that I need to work some days during the holidays as using my holiday would mean I would have nothing left plus it won't even be enough. This request for the 3 and 6 yr old as the 1 year old goes to nursery fulltime.

My request was denied based on it would be detrimental on my quality of work as my children would take priority and therefore affect the team performance and customer relation. I asked that they give me a trial period but was refused even tho I had done this in a previous trust

I was told I can buy up to 4weeks unpaid leave and i can get 4 days parental no pay leave a yr. I explain that would put in financial hardship but was told "unfortunately that is the price you pay for being a mother". Anothet option was to reduce my hours which I explain does not solve my problem.

I need advice as i want to appeal this decision and have only 14 days. Am so upset ,angry and sad. 😠😢

[TyneTeas]

What hours/days/working pattern did you ask for?

What did you put on your form to address the impact of the change?

I understand that you are feeling frustrated, but I can't tell from your post what you asked for and how it would fit in with your work, rather than just what you wanted. Sorry

[LonginesPrime]

unfortunately that is the price you pay for being a mother

OP, not surprised you’re upset if that’s how they phrased it - it makes it sounds like it’s some sort of penalty as opposed to their having made the decision based on legitimate business need. It sounds rather an unprofessional way to express their decision.

When you say you have to ‘buy’ unpaid leave, do you mean that in addition to their not paying you for the time you’re on the unpaid leave, they’re actually docking your pay further for the privilege of taking it?

[Wolfiefan]

How did they say it would be detrimental to your quality of work, customer care and the team?
I'm afraid if those things are true you won't get the hours you want. No matter how much you want them.

[CotswoldStrife]

Did you ask to work from home? What does 'work some days during the holidays' mean?

[Viserion]

Do you mean you asked to work from home so that you could look after your children during school holidays? Not surprised that it got refused if that is what you mean.

If the request you made is incompatible with the business needs, they are legally allowed to refuse.

[Brokenbiscuit]

I'm guessing that op meant to say that she asked to work from home some days in the holidays. If that's the case, I don't really blame her employer for saying no, as I don't think you could focus on a job with two very young children in the background. Fine as an occasional thing to cover sickness etc, but I really don't think it's reasonable to expect your employer to pay you to work through the holidays if you don't have appropriate childcare in place. A 3yo needs a lot of looking after!

I think unpaid leave sounds like a reasonable option, but if you can't afford the time, I guess you'll have to find alternative childcare for those days.

[slimyslitheryslug]

What did you actually ask for? To move to term time only working (which would obviously have financial implications) or to have some sort of arrangement whereby, during the school holidays, you are working from home whilst looking after your DC or bringing your DC into the office or trying to work in the evenings/first thing in the morning? Of course none of the latter would be allowed.

[Hilzy]

I work fulltime and get 27 days annual leave,the kids have 36day holidays a year not including the 6wks summer hols. I asked during the school holiday that i work some days at home. So for example the kids are current off for 6days so i could work work 2 or days at home.

[slimyslitheryslug]

Posted too soon...
If you get four weeks annual leave a year (in the NHS, I think you may get more) can take 4 weeks unpaid parental leave & can buy a further four weeks, that is 12 weeks which only leaves you with one week (plus INSET days) to find cover for which presumably you could manage through holiday clubs or childcare swaps with friends to say nothing of family who may be able to help.

[Wolfiefan]

But is your job one you can do effectively at home whilst still caring for your children?
It's tough but the reality of being a working parent is paying for holiday childcare.

[Brokenbiscuit]

OP has already said that she doesn't want to take unpaid leave because of the financial impact.

The problem is, OP, your employers don't really want to cover the cost of your childcare problem either.

You need to find another solution.

[Hilzy]

Find it hard to understand when pple that have poorly kids work from home,ow can one concentrate as you will need to break to administer medication, clean up puke if it happens etc. Also parents that their kid has a learning difficulty they work from home and it can be quite challenging bit this is allowed. Even when your sick its allowed.

[Viserion]

You have no grounds to appeal that decision. If you are attempting to supervise a 3 and 6 year old while doing a full day's work, of course the quality of work is going to be compromised.

Is the children's dad around? Can you split some of your annual leave, so he looks after them 3 weeks, you do for 3 weeks and you have 1-2 weeks together? Any grandparents close enough to help out? Or other family members? Can you find a childminder who can have them during holiday periods?

This IS the reality of being a working parent. Childcare costs money.

[namechangedtoday15]

Slimy - the OP said 4 days unpaid parental leave (not 4 weeks).

OP - if you've said to your employer that your (very young) children would be at home on the days you work from home, it is entirely reasonable for them to question how you'd give your full attention to the job. I don't think an appeal based on cutting flown your childcare costs has any chance of success.

Where is your child's father in all of this? Can he not cover some of the holidays?

[OliviaPopeRules]

It’s hard OP but I really don’t think you can expect them to pay you to WAH while you look after 2 kids under 6, how would you get your work done.
It’s a bit different to the odd day of looking after a sick child, generally in those circumstances an employer will expect you may not get a full days work done but are doing your best.
Could you do longer days to make up the hours during schools holidays? So so all your hours over 3 days rather than 5 just on the school holiday weeks

[Hilzy]

I work on project and hardly need to ring or see clients but communicate via email and if the need arises while I will b at working from home, plans and arrangement can be made to cover that.
I already pay for child care. My 1 yr old is in full time nursery,my other two go to after school club and during the holiday, they go for two weeks full time summer club.

[FormerlyFrikadela01]

Find it hard to understand when pple that have poorly kids work from home,ow can one concentrate as you will need to break to administer medication, clean up puke if it happens etc. Also parents that their kid has a learning difficulty they work from home and it can be quite challenging bit this is allowed. Even when your sick its allowed.

Setting aside the example a out learning difficulties, the others are generally allowed by some companies because it's short term and perhaps preferable to losing the entire days work. Not sure about the example of children with learning difficulties? Do you know people who have this agreement in place or is it again people working from home on a short term last minute basis becasue of an emergency?
What your suggesting isn't short term and I'd be surprised if any company would agree to it tbh.

[Wolfiefan]

That still leaves you a 3 and 6 year old at home. Could you really do your job effectively whilst caring for them?

[OliviaPopeRules]

But how would you work and look after 2 kids under 6 all day?
To be honest while I really feel for your situation the request is actually quite cheeky and while worth a try I really cannot understand why you are upset or surprised.

[RavenclawRealist]

Just checking that I’m right here your request was to keep your hours, shift pattern ect, the same but in the school holidays work some days from home so you can look after your children and not use all your leave??

I can’t see anyway that will be agreed one how easy is it to do your job from home? Not many nhs jobs I can think of where working from home is a practical solution. And they are right your children will be your priority not answering the email/phone replying to questions ect. Do you have a partner you can share the caring with? Family? Anyone that can help? I think you need to look at alternative arrangements and not pin all your hopes on appealing personally.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

You can't work and look after a three year old nevermind a three and six year old.

You are taking the piss.

[OliviaPopeRules]

It’s not really your employers issue if you cannot arrange childcare and yes they should try and help where possible but it is not up to them to basically allow you to look after your children in company time.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

I cannot think of a single employer who will pay you to look after your children in work time.

You cannot be serious.

[Viserion]

When children are sick, they are generally much easier to plonk in front of the TV and not feel too guilty about screen time. Or they are tucked up in bed resting and recovering. And it is usually only for a day or two. Normal, fit, healthy small children are somewhat more demanding.

Sick adults may be well enough to work but are avoiding spreading their viruses around.

Without knowing the details (which I doubt you do either) I can't answer why a child with learning difficulties would be justification for a WFH request. Unless again it was short term to cover a particular situation.

[DropZoneOne]

I'm amazed a previous employer permitted this. If you are being paid to work, you're doing exactly that. Not looking after your children at the same time! Suggest you split holidays between yourself and the children's father, your children attend holiday club for more days or you ask relatives to help you out. All things I do to make 25 days holiday somehow stretch across 13 weeks off school.