Veggie patch on the cheap?

[neverquitesure]

My children will be 2 and 3 1/2 years old this spring and I'd love to start a little veggie patch/flower bed that they can grow a few simple veggies in plus the odd sunflower etc. Just a few tiny problems stand in our way:

• All setup work/digging/DIY will need to be carried out by me with 2 small and inquisitive (but not necessarily very helpful) children snapping at my heels
  
• I'm not hugely green fingered. Actually the most we've grown to date is cress...
  
• There are a couple of suitable spots but all are quite shady and the soil is terrible
  
• Our existing gardening supplies extend to one large spade, one large gardening fork and one large hoe. We have no hand tools/children's tools so will need to buy these. We also have no spare wood, extra topsoil etc 
  
• We have next to no funds to achieve this
  

Any suggestions on what I'd need and how much it might cost and indeed whether it's even feasible given my time, inexperience and lack of funds? I have this twee little image of the children standing round a raised bed happily harvesting carrots etc but suspect I might be living in la la land...

[dodgyroots]

Personally I would try pots. B&Q often sell the terracotta ones cheaply. I grow herbs from seed (start them in small trays on the window sill in mine) in my pots.

What ever you do don't grow carrots - they are buggers to grow - like really sandy soil. Courgettes are much easier.

Growing veg is actually quite hard - we used to have an allotment but it was quite shady and the slugs ate everything! We would have been cheaper signing up for a veg box scheme!!

[RhinestoneCowgirl]

Yes, I think pots would be better to start with.

What about tomatoes? You can grow them from seed or buy small plants fairly cheaply. We did some runner beans last yr in a big pot with canes in a wigwam shape and they grew really well. Also salad leaves can be grown easily in pots.

[neverquitesure]

Pots sound like a good idea and carrots are most definitely off the menu! Courgettes, salad leaves and tomatoes would all be very popular with the children (and me!) Can you grow sunflowers in pots too?

I don't hold out any hope of saving money, we live in a rural area so can buy our fruit and veg very cheaply from local smallholders and gardeners. We are very lucky.

Any idea what else I'll have to buy/get my hands on? What soil the pots will need? Should I buy the pots with or without holes in the bottom and should I stand them on patio, grass or soil? Oh dear, I'm a hopeless amateur!

[TunipTheVegemal]

Do you compost? I've been amazed how much money that has saved me. I got my compost bins free from the council but you can do it with a compost heap rather than bin if you can't get a bin.

[HJwantstosleep]

Carrots are good in a window box , I do them in the greenhouse to start but you could cover in a plastic bag

[TunipTheVegemal]

growing new potatoes in big pots is fun and really easy, but you need quite big pots.
Actually, having said that, you can do it in strong carrier bags too.
You can grow stuff in any container you like from a holey wellington boot to an old toilet.

[mrspink27]

Climbing french beans and peas are do able in pots, and also tomatoes and strawberries. Could also do in hanging baskets My potatoes grow in 2 old dustbins and my courgettes will be living in an ancient galvanised bath (much to DH's horror at the sight!) Growing from seed is sometimes a false economy - sometimes better to get seedlings from garden centre or cheaper still the local allotment sales. Also cheaper for compost here to.

[neverquitesure]

No we don't compost Turnip and would you believe our local council website seems to be down so I can't check if they give the bins away. There was a compost heap when we moved here a year ago but the children kept climbing on it so we dug it out and used the existing compost on the flower beds. A bin would be great though - especially a free one! How long does it take to make decent compost? We have lots of green waste as I mostly cook from scratch at the moment

Will have to scavenge the house & garden for suitable receptacles. Actually we have a lovely old steel bucket that has seen better days and a bright green tough tub with a hole in it that spring to mind already...

HJ this will sound REALLY stupid but I'm assuming you mean a window box inside the house?

[neverquitesure]

mrspink - sorry just seen your post. Do you just look for local signs for allotment sales or is there a website for this sort of thing? How often do they tend to be on? I'm ashamed that I don't even know where our closest allotments are but then we are VERY rural so perhaps I'll have to look in the towns?

[Fillybuster]

Pots are definitely the way to go (and a good way to use old buckets etc you might have lying around) and mean you can control soil quality (and limit weeding). Growbags are also great, although not very pretty - they're about £2/each at homebase etc and like long flat bags of compost...you cut 3-4 holes in them and put your plants straight in. Then you throw them away (after spreading the remaining compost around your flowerbeds) at the end of the autumn.

A big bag of compost is pretty cheap and goes a long way, or you can buy smaller bags at the supermarket. Tesco do a great line in children's gardening kits (complete with gloves) - if you time it right you might be able to pick up some of last years' reduced stock online before they start up again.

We've found the following things super-easy and low maintenance (and are happy to grow in pots with multiple small children prodding them):

• Carrots (yes, easy and great results every year!). I bought 'small' carrot seed (Nantes or something) and they grow brilliantly with no maintenance in a window-pot type thing.
  

• Peas. Absolutely brilliant, reliable - the dcs love picking and eating them but we don't get many left to actually cook :)
  

• Beans. String beans - no problem. I have never yet managed to grow green beans despite trying for 4 years now...
  

• Tomatoes. Fantastic, and even better if you can find a sunnyish spot, but they do need a lot of water.
  

• Potaotes - go for 'first earlies' and they'll be great in pots. Remember to let them chit (sit on a sunny windowsill until they start to sprout) first.
  

• Strawberries. Foolproof if you can keep the birds and squirrels away.
  

I must admit I find courgettes a bit harder - we've managed them 2 out of 3 years but they're not so rewarding and they're prickly so the dcs can't pick them themselves.

Enjoy :) We've been at it for a few years and its been great fun for the whole family. Even though we only grow enough veg for a few meals each summer, it gives the dcs a real sense of pride, and they love taking peas/tomatoes etc to show & tell every year.

[mrspink27]

Do you have a free paper or local freebie magazine? Often meetings and sales are listed in there - usually on a weekend morning. Also local horticultural societies - probably linked to allotments. Local council will have a list of allotments
allotments uk might be worth a look, they seem to have a map section and advice.
alloment org another useful site!

I have grown chard in flower beds ( rainbow colours are particularly beautiful! ) and all our veg is in big veg bags and containers.

As far as compost goes - it depends how hot your heap is and if you turn it. It is basically down to the mix of brown and green constituents you have in it. Lots on line about composting though - and again if you get a bin from the local council you should get info then. Realistically I dont think you will have compost available to use for this season though.

[Fillybuster]

That's an outside window box, not an inside one, just to be clear :)

[HJwantstosleep]

No outside. Need to be raised up, so an actual window sill would be good. As long as its on something over a foot high as the flies can't fly higher

[mrspink27]

You can get spineless courgette varieties and yellow ones are an interesting variation!

[neverquitesure]

What a brilliant thread and what thoroughly lovely people you gardeners are. I shall be printing this out and using it as my starting point.

Ummm yes of course you meant an outdoor window box HJ just, err, testing to see if you were on the ball. And as an aside I had NO IDEA that flies (fruit and veggie eating ones presumably) could not ascend to over a foot high. I shall now be compelled to google it and find out why!!

Fillybuster 'reliable', 'easy' and 'foolproof' are some of my most favourite gardening words. I am also very excited that my carrot picking dream may now be realised

Great links mrspink, I had another thought too. We might not have many allotments round here but car boot sales are like the local weekend pass time and I seem to recall that the last one I went to had loads of cuttings and so forth so I might try these too.

Thanks again everyone can't wait to get started

[HJwantstosleep]

Carrot fly! We got some last year and they devastatedy last few pots so making more effort this year!

[neverquitesure]

Ewwww and this would be the damage they cause then

[neverquitesure]

Oh and the council site is up and running now, no free bins but they do recommend a company that sells them for almost twice the price of the local Wilkinson store

[captainmummy]

Carrot fly? grow carrots interspersed with spring onions. The fly hates the smell aparently. And grow tomatoes with french marigolds - keep some bug-or-other off them.

[Kaloobear]

Marking my place as we want to start growing veg too but don't have time to read now! Will be back

[mrspink27]

white fly - a weak washing up liquid solution in a spray bottle is a green way to treat these.

[chocolatespiders]

Summer fairs are excellent places to buy veg plants from. We had success with courgettes last year, rocket, cucumber, beans and peas.
Tomatoes seemed a bit lacking last year but they are also lovely to grow.

We do ours in growbags or we have a metre square wooden veg planter.

If you get grow bags make sure they are deep enough and not the ones with the inch of depth

[BornToFolk]

I do veg mostly in pots/bags. I got some big veg bags from Wilkos last year that lasted well and I'll do those again this year.

I also picked up a good tip here last year, from the tomato growing thread I think - cut a grow bag in half and you get a pot/compost all in one. Get a grow bag, bash it around to loosen up the compost and then chop it in half, roll down the plastic a bit, squidge it into place and hey presto, a pot! I did tomatoes in mine last year, and they worked really well.

Last year's big success was runner beans. Beans are quite fun for children as you can do the whole "Jack and the Beanstalk" thing!
Tomatoes did OK too. Courgettes were not that successful but I got a few.

Good luck, it's lots of fun!

[neverquitesure]

Right, I am mentally prepared and ready to get started (come on Kaloobear - grab a trowel and join in )

Unfortunately I got the final quote for my car repairs today and have had to slash my budget further. However I think I can borrow some hand tools and have scavenged enough buckets and tubs to get us started.

I'm thinking one enormous bag of compost and 3 buckets/tubs. I thought we could plant a root vegetable in one, beans or tomatoes or peas in another and sunflowers in the third. Of course it is March, our garden is shady and it's bloody cold out so I have no idea whether this is the right time of year. They will also need to be hardy enough to survive a bit of neglect as my husband travels with work and we quite often go with him for up to 5 days at a time. So watering every day will not be an option.

Am I on the right track? Close even...?

I was also wondering whether it is strictly necessary to use seed potatoes? We buy our potatoes by the sack from a local farm and I have about a quarter of the last sack which have already chitted (see, I'm using gardening words now - I am one of you) and will be thrown composted otherwise.

Oh and what depth should we plant the potatoes at and how deep should the container be and what spacing between them, and, and...

[BornToFolk]

I've always used seed potatoes but was thinking this year I might not bother and just use whatever I've got. However, I did notice that Poundland had seed potatoes in (as well as lots of other gardening stuff, by the way, wonrth a look) so I might shell out £1!
Cover the bottom of the bag with compost a few cms deep them add your potatoes and cover with compost. When the green bits poke through, cover them with compost, etc, etc until you fill the bag. The plants will carry on growing and flower, then when they die back, your potatoes should be ready. I have a rootle around in the bag and if I can feel a few, I harvest. It's better to leave them a bit longer if you are not sure, according to my dad (veg gardening expert!) as they won't come to much harm under ground.
The bags I've got are proper potato bags and are quite big...am rubbish at estimating size but about up to my thigh! I put three seed potatoes in each one. You could always try growing your potatoes in the sacks you buy them in perhaps?

Good luck!