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(37 Posts)
Chris1234567890 Thu 30-Jun-16 02:26:14

Well its nice to read someones been here before.....

Cjamm Thu 30-Jun-16 02:35:42

Wow shock that's the first thing that's actually given me a glimmer of hope, perhaps we can get through this mess with our dignity, economy & union intact.

GreenishMe Thu 30-Jun-16 07:35:28

Thanks for posting that Chris....we could do with some positivity to balance out the doom and gloom.

sorenofthejnaii Thu 30-Jun-16 07:39:01

Joining is different to leaving though.

Who knows what Switzerland's future could have been like? And Switzerland's economy is a bit different to ours.

Still it's always possible. But we all see what we want to see, don't we? (including me)

GreenishMe Thu 30-Jun-16 07:40:27

You want to see doom and gloom??

sorenofthejnaii Thu 30-Jun-16 07:43:21

People see what they want to see:

I don't want to see doom and gloom but seeing one experience does not mean that things are going to be ok.

You decided to interpret my comment as doom and gloom. That's not what I meant but that's the interpretation you put on it.

My point is - we all see the same things through different eyes and put different interpretations on the same thing..

UnderTheGreenwoodTree Thu 30-Jun-16 07:56:32

We're not in Switzerland's position at all. Leaving is different from never joining. It's like not getting married vs. divorce.

Ineedmorelemonpledge Thu 30-Jun-16 07:56:46

Laughing so hard at Switzerland being the promised land to Brexiteers...

All the things they don't want...

25% of the population are immigrant. Yep, a quarter.

Privatised healthcare

Questionable employment laws

They pay a lot of money to the EU and have no say in any of the policy making

Their success is built on low taxation rates for business, post war wealth from their private banking, and high prices.

They have local federal government structures that the UK would never adopt

The country is small which enables them to do this efficiently.

Citizens have to take responsibility for their democracy and their own lives. No nanny state. The mindset is completely different.

There is also a nasty undercurrent of racism fuelled by the SVP.

GreenishMe Thu 30-Jun-16 07:57:38

It just seems odd that anything remotely optimistic is dismissed out of hand (not meaning you particularly) by people who are supposedly desperately searching for a 'glimmer of hope'?

Apologies for putting the wrong interpretation on your comments.

sorenofthejnaii Thu 30-Jun-16 07:59:22

Apologies for putting the wrong interpretation on your comments

No need to apologise. You are just interpreting things in a way you want / need to - and I probably am as well.

Human nature?

Ineedmorelemonpledge Thu 30-Jun-16 08:01:00

A glimmer of hope would surely be a strategic plan from the UK government on the next moves and processes though, wouldn't it?

Not comparing an apple to an orange. The U.K. will never become Switzerland. That's false hope.

GreenishMe Thu 30-Jun-16 08:04:41

A glimmer of hope would surely be a strategic plan from the UK government on the next moves and processes though, wouldn't it?

Couldn't agree more

Ineedmorelemonpledge Thu 30-Jun-16 08:06:01

And let's not even get started on women's rights!!!

GlassBrexiteer Thu 30-Jun-16 08:11:57

And many parallels with the prophecies of doom which turned out to be just sour grapes😊

Lweji Thu 30-Jun-16 08:12:06

Glimmer of hope is not putting our rose tinted glasses.

A glimmer of hope for me is that it will never happen or a decent leaving plan is drafted and agreed with the EU.

Not clutching at straws.

GreenishMe Thu 30-Jun-16 08:13:52

And let's not even get started on women's rights!!!

Well, as soren said previously, we all see what we want to see.

I don't read the letter and think we should be like Switzerland. I read it and see many similarities between the doom and gloom predictions of then and now...

......and that in reality they didn't happen.

Oibeer Thu 30-Jun-16 08:18:42

I find it worrying and am unable to understand why Brexiters bang on about optimism and pessimism confused.

In the corporate world, if you don't have a vision, mission and measurable aims & objectives based on comprehensive data but tell your board that you are optimistic, not pessimistic, what do you think might happen? You guessed right, people would think you are incompetent and not up for the job, no matter how positive and optimistic you are and not matter how much you love the corporate brands and identity. They'd get rid of you pronto no matter how much it would cost them to let you go.

Have people really consumed so much Louis Hay and The Secret that they think optimism is going to solve the UK's problems? Realism, competence, critical thinking, intelligent negotiation and capable (not self serving) politicians would go a long way though. Nationalist 'British is best' ideology not so much.

Ineedmorelemonpledge Thu 30-Jun-16 08:22:09

I see what I see because I live in Switzerland. smile

Doom and gloom is bound to affect people when no one can see the future clearly.

And as has been said, they weren't extricating themselves from the EU.

They are very closely tied up in it though. And follow the policies of borderless movement of citizens etc. It's also taken years to build their current relationship. Years.

But theirs has been a building relationship and not one of extraction.

I think their overall effect on the EU is much smaller too tbh.

Plus the confederation is built on neutrality which I think would be very difficult to maintain in a body like the EU. It would go against their constitution. Neutrality is everything here.

lovelyupnorth Thu 30-Jun-16 08:22:47

Switzerland is also now part of shengan and gets 10x the Chinese visitors we get. Wondering if you Chinese visits will now fall further off a cliff.

Ineedmorelemonpledge Thu 30-Jun-16 08:25:52

Chinese numbers are WAY down this year. It's one of the things we've been monitoring in my business, and it's in the press a lot.

But that's more to do with China's current economic situation. Also laws on importation into China have changed.

Their tax free spending splurges have been curbed quite sharply.

Lweji Thu 30-Jun-16 08:26:23

I'm sure the UK will recover from leaving. Eventually. But will it be better than before? And if not significantly better, is it worth going through the splitting pain?

For Switzerland it just meant nothing changed, although in fact they were able to negotiate an almost membership.
Is it worth for the UK to have an almost membership with very few rights when it used to have them? And will it be able to have favourable terms when the EU is on a close the door as you leave kind of mood?
Can you really be optimistic when you ask all the questions but nobody has any decent or positive answers?

Thefuturecouldbebright Thu 30-Jun-16 08:27:09

Another glimmer of hope is the news emerging about a forthcoming bid for tata steel, the individual making the Bid, believes that Brexit will strengthen the UK steel industry, allowing it to be more competitive against cheap chinese imports by imposing fair tariffs.

Lweji Thu 30-Jun-16 08:28:14

A bid is not the same as a contract.

Thefuturecouldbebright Thu 30-Jun-16 08:29:51

Agreed, hence why I said it was a 'glimmer' of hope ;-)

Lweji Thu 30-Jun-16 08:33:00

Or a mirage.

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