Further EU negotiations won't happen says Juncker

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Apologies if there's already a thread on this.

From BBC news feed today (no direct story link is available as yet).

"British voters have to know there will be no kind of any negotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister. He got the maximum he could receive, and we gave the maximum we could give, so there will be no kind of renegotiation."

Does strongly indicate that 'reforming the EU from within' is a bit of a non-starter.

[YourPerception]

I don't remember voting Juncker in either.

[RedToothBrush]

Fair enough. Can't argue with that clear message

Though it does also remind me of the actions of a football manager who is just about to loose the support of his board members and its all been rumoured in the press. Perhaps the telling bit and he does think we are about to leave

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-juncker-idUKKCN0Z81G4

Article available on Reuters now.

[Winterbiscuit]

Yes, this is it.

Vote according to how the EU really is, not the imagined "reformed EU" which is very unlikely, regardless of how keen the UK are for reform.

[Photosythesis]

The link is available now www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300

If you read the BBC article - it says "It is understood Mr Juncker was not referring to the prospect of future reforms in the event of the UK voting to remain in the EU, something Mr Cameron has insisted will continue."

In other words he is referring to any prospect of post brexit renegotation - NOT that there will be no further reforms of the EU if we stay in.

The main figures in the EU have been talking about the need for reforms. The neck and neck Brexit vote and the fear of further referendums has been one hell of a wake up call.

[fourmummy]

I am surprised that this man hasn't been muzzled yet by the Remainers - unless this is all a very sophisticated and convoluted ploy by a genius. Not convinced either?

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Thanks photo, that extra context wasn't available earlier.

I notice though there's nothing to suggest further reforms if we stay in either, and if this is indeed the 'maximum' that we can hope for, doesn't the argument about the EU being unreformable (in a way that would suit us anyway) still apply?

[BritBrit]

The EU will not reform it simply won't happen, there is a fundamental conflict between the Eurozone (who want more integration, finances organised around the Euro, bailouts, a superstate etc) & British interests

[Photosythesis]

The British government want the Eurozone to get on and integrate so that the Euro can be more resilient. Differing levels of integration is the future for the EU. We will not be involved in future bailouts. The Leave side have been telling porkies that we bailed out Greece last year. The EU budget was used as collateral for a loan to Greece, but what they don't tell you is that our and other non Eurozone countries had our liabilities fully covered by funds set aside by the ECB (the Eurozone's central bank) because of an earlier agreement, reiterated in the renegotation in Feb, that it was their responsibility alone.

[SpringingIntoAction]

Dave wants a reformed EU - not possiblel said Juncker today

Corbyn wants a reformed EU - no reforms on offer said Jucker today

Vote Leave, make your own laws for your own country.

And don't worry about trade with Germany - they will not penalise us for leaving. Project Fear is dead.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060

[Bookaboo]

Every time he opens his mouth the 'reasons to leave' list gets another tick. (I am still undecided)

[SpringingIntoAction]

I find it very disturbing that one man - Juncker, who I never elected is telling our democratically elected Government "there will be no further discussions on reform after tomorrow's vote.

I find that seriously chilling.

I am voting LEAVE to ensure that Juncker has no further control over my country.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the Eurozone bail outs, but the comments from Juncker imply to me that there will be no further discussion on anything. This doesn't seem to square with the assertions from Remain that reform is a constant process, and that we'll continue to work for limits on migration for example.

[shinytorch2]

Back to reality of the challenges facing the eurozone. here is an article from March about ECB (European Central Bank) actions taken to trying and kickstart the eurozone economy

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/10/european-central-bank-cuts-interest-rates-zero-mario-draghi

• interest rates zero
  
• deflation
  
• QE programme (printing money) up to E80 billion per month from E60 billion
  

A quote from the piece: While superficially impressive, this scattershot approach will probably have limited impact on monetary conditions and the economic outlook.

• Greece received >E7billion in its 3rd bailout on Tuesday. Its economy has shrunk by more than 25% since 2008 and >25% of working age people are unemployed. This is an interesting read
  

www.greekcrisis.net/

And here's another article about how the Italian Banks need propping up in order to avert a crisis. They have E360bn of bad loans - The troubled loans amount to 18% of all lending, three times the EU average.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/10/battle-prop-up-italy-
banks-eu-brexit-grexit-bad-loans



You can

[HoneyDragon]

Well In or Outbwe knew Junker would either make a threat or offer a bone. He chose the threat.

Roll on bloody Friday morning.

[shinytorch2]

From Reuters:

If Britons do follow Cameron and vote to remain in the bloc, Juncker said the Union will have to implement the deal the prime minister struck with his EU peers in February. The accord takes effect once Cameron declares that Britain will stay in.

Implementing the deal "won't be easy", Juncker said.

Parts of the agreement, which Cameron says guarantees Britain special status in the bloc, still need to be agreed by the European Parliament and may face legal challenges.

[Spinflight]

So even the tiny supposed reforms that Cameron agreed aren't truly concrete. Also his sound bites about having to be in the EU to reform it.

He has lied to us.

The unelected President of the EU tells us how it is, and it completely contradicts Cameron.

[SpringingIntoAction]

He has lied to us

He sure has.

German industry boss, head of Germany's BDI says there will be no trade loss with Germany when we Leave - destroying Cameron's Project Fear

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060

New round of Turkey membership talks start on 30 June
www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3654717/EU-Turkey-hold-membership-talks-June-30.html

What else has Dave been spinning?

[shinytorch2]

This is an interesting read from the polling guy, Lord Ashcroft

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/06/lord-ashcroft-why-im-for-brexit-yes-there-are-risks-in-leaving-but-the-risks-of-remain-are-bigger.html

[backonthewagon]

Sorry for being a bit thick but can someone explain to me what having no eu reforms means? Is that regardless of voting in or out? Does that mean a negotiation like Norway has where they pay a fee to be part of the EU's single market won't be a possibility if we vote out? What about a negotiation regarding the free movement of people if we vote out?

[SpringingIntoAction]

Sorry for being a bit thick but can someone explain to me what having no eu reforms means?

Juncker has refused to support Cameron's request for any additional special deals for the UK, over and about the miniscule 'changes' that Cameron gained in Feb.

Is that regardless of voting in or out?

Now we are out we have no need to asl Juncker's permission to do anything - we will make our own laws to benefit THIS country, not the EU.

Does that mean a negotiation like Norway has where they pay a fee to be part of the EU's single market won't be a possibility if we vote out?

Not necessarily - the other 168 non-EU countries mange to trade quite happily with the UK without the UK having to let their populations live in the UK.

What about a negotiation regarding the free movement of people if we vote out?

EEC requires free movement but as I said above we do not need to be part of this single market. It's an an illusion. The single market does not cover services. This decision by the UK will send shockwaves through the EEC/ EFTA /EU. It shows that countries like the UK will reclaim their sovereignty and start making their own laws for their own people instead of being dictated to by a trading bloc.

[Roonerspism]

Juncker won the campaign for Leave IMHO

[SpringingIntoAction]

I think Juncker wanted us to vote Leave - so he can crack on with his full political union that includes his much called for EU army. Us pulling out has curbed his ambition.

[Roonerspism]

It looks like that Springing but I'm not so sure. This could dismantle the whole EU. I think he took a massive gamble

[SpringingIntoAction]

Was he sober at the time?