Part time holiday and bank holidays

[Piglett]

Apologies if this has already been done to death but wonder whether those clever HR people, or employment lawyers could confirm whether my stance is correct or not.

My contract of employment entitles me to pro rata holiday of 20 days plus plus any public and bank holidays (in addition before taking up the job I also negotiated having any working days that fall between Christmas Eve and New Year off - generally all other employees have to keep back a couple of days so that they do not need to go into work - the office is shut but some people do opt to work.) I work three days, Monday to Wednesday and I believe I am entitled to the holiday entitlement of 60% of 20 days and as such 20*.06= 12 days.

In addition I believe I should also be entitled to pro rata any bank holiday that falls on a day upon which I do not normally work, therefore Good Friday should entitle me to an extra 0.6 of a day or effectively ½ day. I have never argued this but now feel I want to as I am annoyed by the stance taken

In addition 1/4 way through the holiday year I will have worked for the firm for 2 years which entitles me to an extra days holiday and as such I work it out that I am entitled to 0.75 of a day, pro rata for part time entitles me to 0.45 of a day or rounded up ½ a day.

The new office manager has e-mailed me my holiday entitlement for the year using government guidelines of 5.6 weeks times the number of days I work (3) and then removed the years worth of bank holidays, leaving me with 10 days rather than the 12 I had worked out I was entitled to. I have informed her that my holiday entitlement is governed by contract - ie the days pro rata plus Bank Holidays and provided the calculation above. A meeting has now been arranged for them to go over the calculations. Could anyone give me chapter and verse as to whose approach is correct? Also if I take the attitude that I have in respect of Good Friday do the other Bank Holidays (when the office is shut) have to reduce my overall holiday entitlement pro rata?

[Kammy]

Sounds complicated! I work in the public sector 0.6 and I get 0.6 of full time holiday equivilent (25 days x0.6 = 16) and 0.6 of the 8 public holidays (5 days) For me this means in practice that if Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day fall on my normal working days I have to pay the 3 days back but if they don't and fall at other times of the week, I don't because I have only taken 5 B/H.

Slightly confused by you new managers calculations - 5.6 weeks is more than 20 days to start with. Has he/she included the B/H in with the 20 days? (20 A/L days plus 8 B/H adds up to 5.6 weeks). In which case you are entitled to 12 + 60% of remaining, which is about 5 making 17 days all together. I think!

[flowerybeanbag]

5.6 weeks total is correct, if your full time colleagues get 20 days plus 8 bank holidays, that's 5.6 weeks in total.

So you should get 60% of that, which is 16.8, or 17 days in total.

If normal practice is to separate out bank holidays and other days (I find it easier to roll them all together particularly for part timers), then you'd get 60% of 20 plus 60% of 8, so 12 + 4.8 which obviously comes to the same.

Thinking about getting fractions of days just complicated matters and isn't necessary, the number of days you get is a pro rata amount of the number of days the full timers get.

How many of your normal working days usually fall on bank holidays obviously you'll be able to work out. As a part timer it will vary each year, because of Christmas. Boxing Day and New Year's Day moving each year. Because of that it is usually easier to think in totals rather than separating it out.

In terms of the extra day for length of service, you'll have to check your contract or handbook to see how that is worked out. Everywhere I've worked with holiday accruing for length of service have added the extra day to the following year's holiday entitlement rather than working out fractions of days. But your contract or handbook should say how it's done, alternatively your manager/HR will be able to explain how they do it.

[Piglett]

Thanks for your replies. I think I am right that I get more than 10 days which is what they are saying I should get!
Thanks

[flowerybeanbag]

but they are saying 10 days plus bank holidays aren't they? You need to see what total they come up with, which should be 17 days including bank holiday entitlement.

[Piglett]

4 of the bank holidays fall on a Monday (and the office is closed), they are saying that the holiday I can book is 10 days so effectively I get 14 days off a year - the 10 days holiday and the 4 days when the office is closed. When I worked 4 days a week I got 16 days plus the bank holiday Mondays, by dropping one day I seem to have lost 6 days worth of holiday which cannot be right surely

[flowerybeanbag]

No that's not right. You get 17 days paid holiday a year, including bank holidays.

From the calendar it looks as though Christmas and Boxing Day bank holidays fall on a Monday and Tuesday this year, so you'll get those as well as the four bank holiday Mondays. So that's 6 days off on bank holidays, meaning you should get 11 more days.

Keep it simple when you talk to your office manager. Full timers get 28 days off paid. You get 3/5 of that, 28/5x3=16.8 rounded up to 17 days. Don't overcomplicate it with fractions or differentiating between what you had before and what you have now. You get 3/5 of full time entitlement which is 17 paid days a year.

[Piglett]

But I get the pro rata 20 days (which is 12) and in addition I get bank holidays so it shouldn't really make a difference that the Christams bank holidays are on a Monday and Tuesday this year? ie I get 12 days to take when I like not 10?

[RibenaBerry]

The way it is normally calculated it does make a difference.

You get pro-rata holiday, so if you want to think of it as splitting out holiday and bank holidays, you get 12 days of holiday and 4.8 (i.e. 5) bank holidays. When a bank holiday falls on a working day, you need to use holiday to cover it. That means that, if there are more than 5 bank holidays falling on working days, you need to use some of the 12 days to cover. If there are less than five, you can add the holiday to your normal balance to take whenever you like.

BUT

It's much easier to think of it the way Flowery explained. 17 days, and when bank holidays fall on working days, you have to use a day's holiday from that.

[flowerybeanbag]

I mentioned it because you said earlier that you'd only get four bank holidays this year, the four Mondays during the year. In fact this year six bank holidays will fall on your normal working days, not four, because of when Christmas falls.

In terms of your entitlement compared to full timers you are right you do get pro rata the 20 days (12 days) and you also get pro rata the 8 bank holidays, (5 days).

But because you are part time, the number of working days that fall on bank holidays will vary each year, so it's much simpler to think of an overall holiday entitlement that stays the same, rather than recalculating each year depending on what days of the week Christmas, Boxing Day and New Year's Day happen to fall on.

Your office manager is only one day out; out of the 17 you are entitled to in total, 6 will be on bank holidays this year, leaving you 11, not 10. Another year less bank holidays might be on your working days meaning more of your total will need to be taken at another time.