9 year old with dizziness and persistent blocked nose

[actiongirl1978]

My DS has had a persistent blocked nose for about 4 months, occasionally runny, more often just sounds dry and blocked, sounds like a cork has blocked his nose when he lies in bed at night.

In addition for the last 9 months has complained of feeling dizzy and sick.

He started last year being sick on the way to school daily, we put it down to anxiety and after a doctor's appointment to rule out any physical issues had a referral to a psychiatrist and then psychologist. He had 4 sessions with the latter but refused to keep going and it was too distressing for everyone to keep making him go.

Additionally psychiatrist mentioned testing for HFA in his report and we are about to start that process with the NHS after several months of trying to decide what to do.

Over the last few months he has refused to go into the assembly hall as it makes him dizzy (we thought he'd just felt sick once and associated the feeling each time). He has phases of terrible diarrhea and spitting in the car if he is going somewhere such as the barber's and very often just refuses to go out.

This morning I suggested taking him swimming and he has spent 30 mins saying he would then wouldn't go as it makes him feel dizzy in the changing rooms/pool.

We have come up with numerous strategies to help him cope but he is v stubborn and gets himself wrapped up in the problem.

So I don't know if it is associated with anxiety and the permanent blocked nose is a red herring or if it's connected to his balance.

But he refuses to go to the doctor - the last time I got him there by carrying him to the car howling and he was violently sick before we went in (the smells make him sick).

Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

[actiongirl1978]

I should add I can't get him out during the holidays and he is putting on so much weight as he won't do any activity and I can't force him out!

[moreismore]

I think the behaviour might be related to the blocked nose and mouth breathing at night. Have a read of these articles:
www.kansas.com/living/health-fitness/article41526774.html
www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/09/22/could-adhd-be-a-type-of-sleep-disorder-that-would-fundamentally-change-how-we-treat-it/

[moreismore]

I should add I have read that mouth breathing can cause enlarged tonsils/adenoids so it may be that is has been going on for longer than you’ve noticed the blocked nose.

[actiongirl1978]

Thanks for replying.

He has always slept appallingly, either not able to go to sleep alone or wakes in the night or both.

For the last 6 months we've had to lie with him every night to get him to sleep and he gets up in the night 5 nights out of 7 and comes into us, says he is scared without us. I think it's to do with his blocked nose and not being able to sleep peacefully.

I just want to get him to a doctor's but can't! It's so frustrating.

I've tried putting decongestant on his pillow but that makes no difference, he won't have anything up his nose (so no flu vaccine for him last year) or take anything like an antihistamine.

I think maybe I'm going to go around in circles until I can get him to the GP.

[actiongirl1978]

And I did wonder about adenoids/tonsils also.

[moreismore]

This might have some things you could try www.buteyko.co.uk/. If you think he would be open to seeing a paediatric chiropractor I think that could also be helpful.

[moreismore]

I would also be inclined to try and break the cycle by doing what he needs for good sleep for a period of time, even if that’s to be in with you. I realise it’s not something that can work for everyone though

[actiongirl1978]

Thanks so much for your replies. Yes we don't push back against the sleeping with us/ lying with him, theres no way he will sleep otherwise!

[justilou1]

Sounds like the poor kid has chronic sinus issues. May need a sinus regimen sorted by an ENT. Some people simply have dodgy-shaped sinus cavities that don’t allow for proper airflow, so allergens and infections become trapped. You might need an X-ray or PETscan to find out.

[Alwaysgrey]

Firstly go to an ENT. It seems a lot of the time with asd the first thing they say to check is the hearing. But the blocked nose and feeling dizzy would suggest a trip to the ent to rule things out.

[actiongirl1978]

Thanks for your replies.

I am just going to somehow get him to the GP.

[moreismore]

Can you choose a calm moment and talk about why he hates the Dr. So smell/busy waiting room/other things. Then write a list together of all the things he hates. Then brainstorm how to make them better. So can he put a smell he likes in a hanky/his stuffed toy and sniff that. Can you arrange ahead with the surgery to wait separately (like they offer for suspected chicken pox etc) Giving him some control might help? I hope you manage to find a solution.

[BigusBumus]

One of my sons has ADHD & mild ASD. He could not breathe through his nose AT ALL and sounded like darth vader at night. He spoke like when you hold your nose and he couldn't close his mouth when eating and therefore his table manner were shocking (according to my mother). He also had dizziness that came and went.

At 10 years old He had his tonsils and adenoids out and a grommet put in one of his ears. Adenoids should be in the singular really as its just one thing, rather than 2 like tonsils and my sons had grown so massive it completely covered the back of his nasal cavity allowing no air AT ALL to get through. The surgeon said it was one of the biggest he's removed! (Although he might have said that to make DS feel a bit proud).

The effect on DS was immediate. Like, he woke up on the recovery ward and exclaimed "I can BREATHE!" whilst doing hugely exaggerated in and out breathing through his nose with his mouth shut for the first time ever. We actually just sat there and laughed and laughed!

His sleeping improved and as a knock on his concentration, behaviour etc. The dizziness disappeared, which could have been due to that he had had glue ear in just one ear.

If you can get your son to the GP, please ask for a referral to ENT at your local hospital. Good luck x

[actiongirl1978]

BigusBumus thanks so much that is kind of what I wanted to hear!

Such great news for your DS to be able to sleep and breathe properly what a relief it must have been for him.

Could the GP see the adenoid problem quickly or did it need more exams? I'm pretty sure that when I took him in for sickness last year that he had a light in his ears and throat.

[BigusBumus]

The GP won't do much at all, especially if your son is pretty phobic. Its the ENT consultant that will do the main exams.

You probably need to know that he or she will have a tiny camera like a little match stick on a flexible wire that he will want to put up your sons nose. They will show your son first and put it in their own ear or down the side of their desk or whatever to demonstrate what it does, you watch the image on a TV screen. If your son will allow it up his nose its pretty fascinating! It doesn't go up far, just about like a finger does, but you can see the adenoids and all sorts of hairs and snot. My son loved it!

Other than that he might have a hearing test, which is wearing headphones and pressing a button when he hears a beep. And a look in his mouth at his tonsils.

The consultants are generally used to children with varying special needs, so they will have seen all sorts of behaviours before and you've no need to be anxious about it.

[moreismore]

I wonder if it might be worth asking for a telephone consultation or writing to your surgery explaining your son’s phobia and asking for a referral based on a list of symptoms? From what the PP said it would be straight to ENT anyway...

[Nogodsnomasters]

He definitely needs to see an ENT, the dizziness could be from an inner ear problem as well as either sinus or adenoids being an issue by the sounds of it. I agree with pp about sitting down with him during a calm moment and explaining that in order to make him feel better he will have to see some doctors either at the surgery or at the hospital and making a list with him if he can describe exactly what is causing him to react the way he does (smell, sounds, sights) etc and work your way through each one with a possible solution.

I would ring your gp and ask for a telephone consultation and explain how difficult it is for you to get him there but give full details of the symptoms and outright as for an ENT referral.

[Nogodsnomasters]

Also just want to ask, other than poor sleeping until last year did he have any of these reactions before? Did he go to the gp fine when he was 5/6/7 years old for minor ailments, was there anything in particular that stands out that could have started this behaviour last year? I'm just wondering as asd would present a lot earlier in life than aged 8.

[Herocomplex]

Would you be prepared to be seen privately? Contact your local private hospital with an ENT consultant, ask if they have GP service as well. You’ll need a referral to the consultant by a GP, and it makes the process simpler. You can get the cost first before you commit to anything. It’s probably a lot less than you think.
Obviously if either you or your husband have private healthcare as part of your jobs it will be even cheaper!

[actiongirl1978]

Hi all, I've spoken to the doctors and they said I can ring for an urgent appointment one day next week when I know I will have him in the car to drop my DD at camp - so basically drive straight there and deal with any sick/hysteria as it happens! I've explained how anxious he is and it is a lovely surgery, so I just hope people don't judge me as I manhandle a spitting child through the waiting room!

He has always disliked doctors, but I do remember taking him in age 7 and 8 in PJ's crying his eyes out at the smell. I have never successfully managed a dentist appointment with him as for the past 2 or 3 years he is sick every time he goes - our lovely dentist resorted to trying to check his teeth in the carpark with him howling into me as the smell made him gag.

With the asd we just don't know. Psych said possible aspergers and lots of the descriptions do fit. Also a friend with a very autistic older child at the same school upon hearing about the report, said that she had long suspected about my DS. So we are going down the NHS waiting list route I suppose in case it's a phase and he grows out of it before we get to see camhs.

I am so grateful to you for all your advice, its been going round and round in my head for days and I couldn't solve the problem.

Re the ENT, if we need to see one, we have AXA so could proceed through that.

[moreismore]

Well done for making the call and I do hope you get the referral you need. Tell the GP you have private health insurance and they should be able to refer directly to a private consultant.

[actiongirl1978]

Thanks MoreisMore, I appreciate all your words of encouragement today.

[Herocomplex]

If you have Axa have a good look at your entitlements. The reason I’m suggesting seeing someone privately is that an independent hospital is quite different, the sensory experience for your son might be less intense. You could ask for an appt at a quieter time of day as well.

[justilou1]

My best friend’s son has autism, and my cousin’s two boys also. They all have had their tonsils and adenoids removed and while awfully stressful for all involved at the time, their eating improved dramatically afterwards. (Upside!!!) I hope that if this turns out to be the problem, then this could be something to maybe aim for!

[actiongirl1978]

Hero - good idea.

Just - that's another good reassuring story. Of course I could come back next week and tell you he has sinusitis once he's seen the GP and there's no easy answer!