6 month old not coping with dairy?

[pinkdolly]

hiya,
Apologies if you have read this in the weaning section, wasn't quite sure where to post.

Here goes...

I have been weaning dd for a few weeks now, and notice that every time she has even the tiniest bit of dairy that she poos all the way up to her neck (yeah, gross i know). its v,runny and v.smelly.

Thing is she is breastfed, her poos have always been runny, but i took that as the norm for a b/fed baby. I was wandering if she was lactose/dairy intolerant, but wouldnt she have had a reaction to my milk.

Also i want to start introducing the odd f/f, in case i need to go out. Should i buy a special brand not to interfere with her tummy.

Just a point, she is only about 13lbs, could it be that her digestive system is just too immature for dairy at the mo.?

thanx

Pink

[TooTicky]

Some people don't introduce dairy uintil 12m. I avoid it altogether as it is not really natural (well, really it is for calves). Even the WHO are now advising people to eat less dairy. I'd certainly leave it at least a few months.

[Enid]

they do have spectacular poos when weaning

personally I wouldnt worry, as long as she is gaining weight and healthy

although the goats milk formula is lovely

very very expensive though

but I am a bit anti-cutting out foods from diets unless ordered to by doctor

I think true milk intolerance is very very rare

[bluejelly]

My baby was lactose intolerant, but came out in a red rash all over her body so it was very obvious... I carried on bfeeding her and expressing when I was at work-- then she had soya milk too.
Why don't you leave the FF for a few weeks and then try again, see what happens?
Don't panic though, my dd happily guzzles cow milk now

[moondog]

Can't you express some of your own milk?
That's going to be the safest and easiest thing.

[moondog]

Although you are of course aware that any pooh done after food is introduced is unspeakably vile compared to pooh form a breastfed baby??

[CanStarveWillStarve]

Contrary to what Enid 'thinks', milk intolerance in babies is actually very common. Doctors are, of course, cr@p at diagnosing it - see this recent article about that very fact.

The 3 most common reactions to cows milk (according to DD's paed) are rashes (where the milk contacts the skin), diarrhoea and irritability (often thought to be caused by some kind of pain from the milk - we believe stomach cramps in the case of my dd).

In some women, dairy passes through the breastmilk in sufficient quantity to have an effect (my dd didn't stop screaming for the first 15 weeks of her life, around 12 hours a day), but in other women it doesn't seem to. If you are fortunate enough not to have it pass through, then I would recommend expressing and using that instead of cows milk in your cooking. Alternatively, you could order Nutramigen 2 from your pharmacy, but it is expensive and tastes like sh1t - my dd refuses to drink it or eat food with it in .

[pinkdolly]

thanx for your replies.

moondog- i knew someone was gonna pick me up over not-expressing. the truth is, and i am actually quite about it. Is that i have tried and tried to express and i am useless. i can sit for 45 mins and only get about 2oz.

I have 3 dds in all aged 4,3 and 6 months. they are with me all the time so finding the time to express is hard.

i was really only giving her a bit of butter or soft cheese on bread/crumpet, and thats wot is causing her to poo.

[moondog]

Oh dear.
That's a bugger on the expressing front.
It does take practice though.
I found a little battery operated one (Medula)first thing in the morning worked best.

Poor you,I can see why you must need a break.

[CanStarveWillStarve]

Pinkdolly - I never got anywhere much with expressing either, but dd refused to drink it anyway, so I stopped bothering!

Can recommend Pure Sunflower spread as an alternative to butter. There aren't many spreads that are dairy free, but this one is free of both dairy and soya (babies who are milk intolerant are something like 30-40% likely to be soy intolerant too).

If you go to a health food shop you should also be able to get a 'soft cheese' spread that is made from soya/tofu, and is thus also dairy free. Have a feeling that the one we use is called 'toffuti'.

I didn't ask before, but is she gaining weight ok, despite the fact that she is still quite light? I ask because 'failure to thrive' is one of the symptoms often associated with milk intolerance.

I would ask your doctor if he will prescribe Nutramigen or similar for you. The worst he can do is say no!

[Enid]

"milk intolerance in babies is actually very common"

no it isn't

[CanStarveWillStarve]

And so says Doctor Enid.

[pinkdolly]

Canstarve_ Thanx for your input. Re rash- DD has ezcema so has a rash anyway. But this is only in and around her neck, behind her ears and at the back of the knees. The rest of her skin can get dry (i keep her creamed up), but no noticable rash.

Re weight gain. She was only 5.12 at birth and has always been slow at gaining weight. But the HV's aren't concerned as she is always v.alert and active.

I am due to see the hv's for a review on the 29th so will ask them about it then. Will also be getting her weighed to see how she's doing.

Please people dont start an arguement on my account!

[Elasticwoman]

If eczema is a problem, all the more reason to feed breastmilk rather than any alternative. I too found expressing difficult; I was hand expressing just a little to mix with first solids. Later when I became a pump agent,I had a go on the machine myself and found it much easier. Are you using a pump?

Other things you can put on bread are olive oil or hummus. I avoided dairy for my children for the first year, and now they can have it without any problems. You do not have to cut it out for ever.

IMO dairy foods are both unsuitable and unnecessary for the immature gut of a baby, and it is a measure of how amazingly flexible and adaptable human beings are that so many babies manage to digest it at an early age. Enid has reservations about cutting out a whole food group - but this is about starting a food too early, not cutting something out of a well established diet.

[FirstAtForty]

CanStarveWillStarve ? where you said that ?'failure to thrive' is one of the symptoms often associated with milk intolerance.? ? does that apply to formula fed or bf babies? And by milk did you mean cow's milk?

Just wondered because my DD (6 months) has only had formula 4 times in her life and has vomited continuously each time for several hours afterwards. She also stopped gaining weight well at about 13 weeks, went from 25th/50th centile down to 2nd over about 8 weeks, now appears to be stuck on 2nd centile but is gaining. She?s 12lbs 13oz at 26 weeks. She has been prescribed lactose free Enfamil but won?t drink it, so I don?t know if it?s a lactose thing, dairy or something else in the formula. Docs and HV?s stumped as to why the sudden drop in weight gain, she has always bf well, but I do eat tons of dairy - could there be a connection? I have an aunt who for some reason couldn't have cow's milk as a baby, don't know the details though. Any ideas welcome!

[FirstAtForty]

PS hi Pinkdolly - sorry for a bit of a hijack there. Can't help re your original question, but will let you know if we have a similar 'poo experience' when I try dairy as part of her weaning, which I guess I will do at some point!

[yellowrose]

cow's milk and dairy are known allergenics and gut irritants - some org. recommend you don't give an infant under 1 any cow's milk at all (ps - formulas are made with cow's milk) - the reason is simple - the molecules that make up cow's milk are very large compared to human milk so for many babies very difficult to digest

it is up to you if you wish to introduce formula or not - i think expressing bm would be a better alternative to formula

when i needed a night out on my own or to do essential stuff without taking ds with me, i simply expressed and left a full bottle of ebm for dh to feed DS while i was out - it worked out well and all i had to do was plan ahead - i expressed first thing in the morning after ds first morning feed, then again around noon and again before going out - the whole thing only took about 45 mins. out of my day and i was happy that ds was not getting anything allergenic

[CanStarveWillStarve]

Aah pinkdolly - she's an ickle baby (dd was 9lbs at birth, so most babies seem small by comparison!). As long as her weight is going in the right direction then I wouldn't worry about that.

FirstatForty - failure to thrive in milk intolerant babies refers to both bf and ff ones. When I say milk intolerant, yes I do mean cows milk (formula is made from cows milk and it can pass through breast milk too), although in the majority of cases it will apply to goats and sheeps milk too. The weight drop by itself wouldn't be sufficient to conclude that she is milk intolerant (a number of other conditions, including reflux, also have this as a common symptom), but her level of sickness from the formula does rather point in that direction. I think that the main reason that babies with CMPI fail to thrive is that they associate drinking milk with pain, and thus don't drink as much as they really need. I sympathise with the refusal to drink Emfamil - my dd is now 11 months and she's never drunk milk (except literally a sip or two) from anything other than me, and we're still bf'ing at least 6 times a day .

[worleygig]

hi, my ds2 is 6.5 months and 13lb 4oz, he is allergic to milk protein. we found out at 6 weeks when we introduced a bottle of formula so dp could take over a feed during the night, he had a rash for a few days which got worse and worse and then was being sick all after each bottle feed. this carried on for 6 days until they admitted him and found out what it was. so hes been bf 100% scince. im pretty crap at expressing also, i even got a medula and can only manage 5oz a day.
when i eat lots of dairy or even drink just a half pint of milkshake a day he gets really mucusy/chesty until its all gone out of my system. (we had a few experiments to discover this)
anyhow pinkdotty,
could you try cutting out dairy for a week or so and see if it makes any difference to her? that may help?
also was she tiny to start with? my ds2 was 4lb11 and has been really slow to gain any weight but is thriving.

[Enid]

just to update

milk allergy less than 1% of population
milk intolerence between 6-8% of population

according to R4 this am

so hardly 'very common'

[yellowrose]

Enid was R4 referring to the ADULT pop. or infants ? I can't believe that only 1% of INFANTS show an allergic reaction to cow's milk or dairy. It must be much much higher than that.


This is what kellymom.com says about introducing cow's milk before age 1:


"Use of cow's milk before a year is controversial among experts. You might want to get your baby's doctor's opinion on this.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends NO cow's milk until after the first birthday.

Cow's milk is more specific to a baby cow than a baby human. Cow's milk formula is based on cow's milk but has been engineered to be closer to human milk (still a ways off, but closer). Many infants still have problems with cow's milk formula (allergies, GI problems, etc.). Babies who are exposed to cow's milk before their first birthday are more likely to be anemic, have diarrhea or vomiting, and/or experience an allergic reaction (the proteins in milk are more numerous than those in other milk products, such as the yogurt). The excessive protein load in cow's milk can also overload a baby's kidneys. It is deficient in vitamins C, E, and copper. It is harder to digest as well, often causing intestinal blood loss. A number of studies have also indicated that early introduction of cow's milk may contribute to the development of Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus.

Others see no problem with starting cow's milk toward the end of the first year unless there is a family history of allergy to it. Dr. Jack Newman, a renowned expert in the lactation field, is one of these. See the Breastmilk, cow's milk, formula, outside work and bottles section of his article "Breastfeeding and Other Foods." Notice that he qualifies this advice with the importance of the baby being well-established on a variety of solids and continuing to be breastfed (both of which should help make up for what cow's milk can't offer at this age). He also suggests that supplemental milk of any kind is not all that necessary if the baby is allowed to nurse frequently when with mom. He suggests offering the baby solid foods with some water or small amounts of juice instead"

[Enid]

5% of infants have a milk ALLERGY

but it is self-correcting in most cases apparently

[CanStarveWillStarve]

According to the Food Standards Agency, allergy to cows' milk is the most common food allergy in childhood and affects 2-7% of babies under one year old.

Maybe we have different perceptions of the terms common and rare, but I do consider that to be common, esp if it's nearer the 7%. And it may of course be much higher, given that other articles suggest that less than one fifth of cases are diagnosed, and the FSA figures presumably only include diagnosed cases.

[CanStarveWillStarve]

Ah crossed posts - yes, agree that it is normally self correcting.

[Enid]

7%?

common?

really?

I think that is a fluid definition of 'common' personally

[CanStarveWillStarve]

In the context of you seeming to imply that pinkdolly's dd was unlikely to be milk intolerant because it is so rare, I entirely stand by my 'fluid' definition.