My 3 and 4 year old are sooo naughty

[Treyromeomommy]

I am a single mother of 3 and 4 year old sons, i left their dad almost 2 years ago after alot of physical and emotional abuse.. which was often witnessed by my babies.
Since i have left and the boys are getting bigger all they do is destroy my house and abuse me. They will wee all over the house poo throw food throw juice... the other day the poured a jar of golden syrup on my carpet then laughed when they were sent to their room.
I dont have any1 to help with my kids as none of my family know how to control them. My partner lives in canada so i leave the boys for a week sometimes but as you can imagine get endless calls and txts because of their behavior.
I dont know what to do anymore ive been to parenting classes and they dont seem to have done much.
I feel lile im about to lose my mind i find myself fantasizing about packing up and just walking out. I love my sons with all my heart but i dont know what to do anymore.
I probably sound like an awful mother and believe me i feel like one

[Kirstymlw]

Hi, i can't offer any advice but just to say hang in there. Can't be easy for you. Do they get on ok at school? Is there a health visitor you could talk to about it for support?

[Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds]

Oh my. That sounds tough. Are they in nursery at all?

[Catherinebee85]

You need to implement warnings then punishments immediately and be super super consistent. They need to know what's right and wrong. Do they share a room and get sent there together? Do their rooms have things that are entertaining in? If so that's absolutely not a punishment is it?

It doesn't sound like something they'll grow out of...are they in a nursery? Could you make use of the free nursery hours? Are you being too nice to them because you feel guilty?

[SnapCackleFlop]

This sounds really hard. I think lots of parents feel a bit like you describe now and then. It sounds even harder if their behaviour is so very challenging though.

It's already been asked but is there anyone that could offer advice such a doctor or health visitor?

It's hard never to have a break or change of pace even. Sending you good wishes

[Treyromeomommy]

They are both in nursery 3 hours per day... they love it there and are so well behaved.... they do share a room but i have a spare room so when they are being punished they are separated.... i have also removed all toys from the bedroom as they were destroying them so i felt they was not deserving of them.... i think they are rebelling against me because i took them from their dad... and i cant explain why whilst they are so young but am hoping they will understand when they are older

[holidaysaregreat]

I would struggle on my own with 2 boys that are strong willed. Don't have any advice - but perhaps you need to ask for more help? It will get harder the longer you leave it. You say on one hand you have no help but then that you go off to Canada for a week at a time, so wonder if you didn't go to Canada your family might help a bit more little and often.
Could you also put them in nursery at different times and so you would get 1-1 with them individually?
Could you get them out the house for a bit longer so they run off some steam outside rather than in the house?
Look into homestart www.home-start.org.uk/
Perhaps also look at putting them in separate rooms as they might have less of a pack mentality.
Could you invite friends over to keep them busy - sometimes having friends over makes things easier.
Could you get them involved in something sporty?
Sorry probably crap ideas

[highinthesky]

Start being a lot firmer with your boys unless you want this to get worse. A bit of consistency won't harm anyone, nor will it stop your front being a loving mother.

And stop leaving them whilst you go to Canada. Your children need to know they come first.

[Heirhelp]

You need to seek help from your HV but I agree with the stop leaving them.

[silkpyjamasallday]

Adjusting to their dad not being around will be very difficult for them, and the feeling of abandonment when you leave for Canada probably isn't helping as they don't have the security of your presence after the upheaval of their dad leaving. Could your partner not come to the U.K. instead? In the end you have to put your children first, especially over a long distance relationship, and they have to know that they come first.

[Treyromeomommy]

I go to canada twice a year... we will be moving there once ive sorted out court orders as i cannot take them there without their dads permission

[Treyromeomommy]

No he cannot come over here he was declined his visa application... my children do come 1st... 2 weeks out of 52 doesnt hurt them

[highinthesky]

Well if you take the view that time away from them is insignificant, you are your own worst enemy.

This is a recipe for absolute disaster, and I feel very sorry for your DC that their mother cannot see past her own needs.

[eerry]

Ask your Hv for support and advice. Do a parenting programme that's on offer, have a good bedtime routine, make sure they are getting enough sleep. Feed them healthy foods with little crap. Consistency is everything at this age.

I would get support with all this while you are in you U.K. & it's free. It will only get worse otherwise.

[StarUtopia]

I agree that going to Canada is not a good idea at all. Your boys are fighting for your love and attention (albeit in a way that isn't great right now)

I can't imagine having the energy for a long distance relationship with two small children who ultimately come first no matter what. Dear god. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me - who actually moves abroad permanently with two small children for a guy?! You would be permanently removing them from their own father.

[Treyromeomommy]

Starutopia. They will be moving to a better life than what they have in the u.k... and by orders of social services they are not alowed to see they're dad because of the domestic violence.....

[Ledkr]

Op they sound traumatised and I urge you to seek out a therapeutic parenting advisor. DDP it's sometimes called.
You are the only person who can change what is going on in their little heads but you need support and guidance to do so.
Have you contacted women's aid as they have child workers which might be a good start.

[SleepFreeZone]

I have two boys and I feel your pain.

Their behaviour does sound extreme. I can't imagine my reaction if I came down to wee and poo all over the place. Let's put it this way, it would happen only once! You sound beaten down by them and I wonder if that's half the trouble.

My advice would be ask for help from HV. I've found them a valuable resource over the years and they will also refer you for my help if they think it's necessary.

[newdaylight]

I don't think they're necessarily rebelling against you because of them feeling like they've been taken from your dad, I suspect they're showing the effects of trauma from having seen emotional and physical abuse, heard it from their rooms, seen the impact it had on you, etc.

This is likely to have made them stressed and scared and made then develop their own responses to cope. As they are close in age I expect they find solace in solidarity so do a lot of naughty behavior together. They have also learnt inappropriate norms about how conflict is resolved.

Even though they are now safe and you are protecting them from further harm, it all take longer for them to be able to have full confidence in that. I imagine their behaviour comes out of being constantly alert, something people call hypervigilance. This is born out of fear and a feeling that something might happen just round the corner. Children who have experienced trauma often appear very similarly with ADHD and some research suggests that lots of children may actually be misdiagnosed as such.

Unfortunately there's no magic solution as you know. Take the advice given here, make sure your boundaries and consequences are as crystal clear as possible. But also make it age appropriate- a 3yo is unlikely to understand being sent to their room for a long time like 20 mins or 30 mins.

Try deescalating before things get too bad by distracting with a different activity, even setting if the children are able to recognise that they're at risk of doing something naughty and have a fun time out space with maybe drawing and things they can squeeze and feel.

Try and make sure the messages they get from you are consistent, and that ultimately they know you will keep them safe. They might start to relax.

And for that final reason I agree with pps about going away to Canada. It's easy for an older child or an adult to process a loved one going away for a week. But far harder for a 3 and 4 yo, and you are the most important person in their lives by far. I think any child of that age, but especially in your case because of what I've said above, they need absolute consistency. That's really hard I know.

Well done for getting them, and yourself, or if the situation you were in.

[newdaylight]

Out of, not or if!

[Tweedledumb0]

Sounds really hard, OP. I also think they sound traumatised and are acting out; you need to push hard for some really good therapeutic intervention for them.

I'm afraid I also agree with PPs that going away from them for a week, even twice a year, is a really bad idea as things stand. From a grown-up point of view it's 2 weeks out of 52, but young kids don't have that broader vision of the 50 weeks you're with them; a week is a v long time to be away from 2 littlies who've had significantly trauma.

This may not be relevant at all, but why was your new DP's VISA turned down?

[highinthesky]

OP, do you have any concept of what your kids have been through already in their short lives? NC because of DV is a very big deal and as PPs have said, they are traumatised.

Stop being so selfish and invest your love and time towards your children. You might think you are giving them a better life in Canada, but the problem is in fact you. Wake up to yourself.

[Tweedledumb0]

Ps OP I just re-read your initial post, and sadly it looks as if no professionals you've been involved with have really explained to you the impact that your previous awful situation may unfortunately have had on your boys.

They're really not naughty (though obv the behaviour sounds awful for you), nor are they angry with you; they're traumatised. AND that trauma happened when they were pre verbal, which means they're kind of carrying it around in their little bodies and acting it out.

Please have a Google of per verbal trauma and read up on it; it's a big deal, and you need to inform yourself and get pushing to get them the help they need, so that they (and you) are not carrying on like this.

[Quartz2208]

I agree with the PP the impact of what you all went through has traumatised them. You do ne d o push for them to get professional help.

Unfortunately a side effect is that as others has said leaving them is not the same as leaving non traumatised children and the impact could be huge. Sadly 2 weeks out of 52 could hurt them

I think you really need to get some professional help and focus on healing the 3 of you together. They do t need punishing for this

[Ledkr]

Let's not forget here that the op is a victim here too.
It's easy to sit in judgement when you aren't in that life.
Of course it's not ideal for the op to go away for two weeks a year but the dad is the one who has fucked up why should op sacrifice every single scrap of happiness.
I think op, you'd be better off looking at these weeks away and doing the best you can to make them less traumatic for the children.
Please find a good parenting therapist (not a behaviourist one) and get them into a place where they are more secure.

[highinthesky]

Everyone's a bloody victim.

The past can't be undone, but should the OP's children suffer for her wilfully poor choices? It really is now that simple.