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4 year old has started school and is out of control!HELP :(

(40 Posts)
roxynixon23 Fri 14-Sep-12 16:42:52

Hi, so my 4 year old has recently started school and he's been awful to other kids and the teacher,today for instance he has hit 3 children,stangled another and screamed at the teacher "i hate you,you are stupid". he lashes out, he screams and cries even if he is askrd to do something simple like sit on the carpet. the teacher puts him in the time are corner when he does these things, he was all so like this at preschool and at home. I've tried the naughty step,taking things away,behavoiur charts and loads more things but nothing is working, its like he knows its wrong but it seems like he cant help his self.i am at rock bottom sad i spoken to my hv and our local childrens centre who are coming out to see me soon.does anyone have any advice on why hes like the way he is,is he just a "naughty"boy or cud there be somthing else going on?? Please any advice will help mesmile thankyou

mummytime Fri 14-Sep-12 21:28:02

Go to see your GP and get referred to a paediatrician.

SharpObject Fri 14-Sep-12 21:30:57

Is he tired, what does he eat for breakfast, is he constantly like this at home and school?

Is there any reason you can think of that is causing home to act out like this?

DD also started school last week. Nightmare at home (tired) but fine at school.

JeuxDEnfants Fri 14-Sep-12 21:32:43

He obviously has behavioural issues. Have you tried takings log of what happens before and immediately after the behaviour? What is he gaining from it? Something is causing him to want to do it again. Is it attention... avoidance, does he want something particular as a result or is it just that he enjoys it?

JeuxDEnfants Fri 14-Sep-12 21:34:28

Does he have any delays? Language for example? Or any anxieties? You should ask your go to be refered to a developmental paed.

roxynixon23 Fri 14-Sep-12 22:38:38

Thanks for your replys, ive asked him why he does these things and all i get is "cus i did" he eats really well,we have cereal for brekfast and eat alot of fruit and veg so i dont think diet is a problem.i wrote out a week worth of naughtyness to see if there is a trigger and i cant see one.i am just ay my wits end,dont get me wrong he is still a loving child but i feel hes missing out on so much, i dont think he is learning enough or reaching his potential as hes to busy being naughty.ive even thort about adhd as he has little attention span and every day things can be a struggle even things like passing me somthing or putting his socks on sad yesterday the teacher simply asked him to sit on the carpet and he had a melt down.he does seem tired when he comes home from school but he has been like this for about a year now.im gonna book an appointmen with the doc as i need to get my little boy back sad

JeuxDEnfants Fri 14-Sep-12 22:44:49

Appointment with gp sounds like a good first step. Sorry, I know it's really stressful

madwomanintheattic Fri 14-Sep-12 23:08:42

What did nursery suggest?
What do school suggest? What are their thoughts? He won't be the first to exhibit this stuff they have seen, and sometimes they recognize signs.

Referral to developmental paed and ask to discuss possible behavior strategies with senco and ct.

roxynixon23 Fri 14-Sep-12 23:17:04

Nursert suggested contacting my h/v which i did and she has refeard us to a childrens centre and im seeing them on tuesday smileits school that is getting me down cus the teacher has basically said she cant cope and he is the worst she has seen,which i doubt very much. i just feel so lost in all of this sad

Goldmandra Fri 14-Sep-12 23:36:27

The teacher is not behaving very professionally by telling you she can't cope! it is her job to get the support she needs to be able to cope.

The school may need to provide a TA to support your DS in the classroom and try to establish triggers in the same way that you did.

The school should be inviting their behaviour support team in to observe him and offer new strategies to support him.

She should also be looking for ways to work in cooperation with you to manage this behaviour, not moaning at you.

Is this just about him not being able to manage his anger or are there other concerns about his behaviour. There are books you can get for children about feelings and anger management. Look for the set by Margot Sunderland on Amazon and also a book called Mad isn't Bad.

madwomanintheattic Sat 15-Sep-12 15:22:49

What did the senco say?

If the teacher can't cope with a child in her class, she needs to be getting some advice herself.

Have they got him on a behaviour plan etc? Or are they ignoring it all and waiting for a doctor to wave a magic wand? Have they discussed what methods they are using in the interim?

Who are you seeing at the children's centre? Paed?

madwomanintheattic Sat 15-Sep-12 15:28:33

'the worst she's seen' isn't terribly constructive.

If he is endangering his peer group, then you need to discuss how they are going to support him to safeguard his peers. It isn't just about him, it's about the rest of the class.

I wouldn't sweat too much. We've seen worse, and with proper support (ie 1-1 if that's what it takes) and plans to evacuate the classroom if an incident occurs, and proper behavioural techniques, then the 'worst' usually cope much better.

This is assuming there are no other things clouding the issue.

And, I have to say, if nursery knew he was like this, they have completely let both you and him down by not getting support and referrals in place sooner.

But that's by the by, now.

have you met with the senco at all?

sarahsal Sat 15-Sep-12 15:32:14

As a primary school teacher (including Reception) I know that there is always a reason for what people see as `naughty` behaviour and no young child really wants to be naughty. I suspect that he is feeling very anxious and threatened in his new environment - some children just go quiet/withdrawn or save all their tantrums until after school. Your little boy is responding with anger.
He could be feeling anxious for a variety of reasons (a new environment, different expectations, fear of failing, ) and his tiredness and negative reactions to him/his behaviour aren`t helping. He can`t tell you why he`s behaving this way because he doesn`t know himself.

The first priority is to make things better at school.
He is only 4 and he needs some support and some success. He needs to feel that he is wanted in school.
Your first port of call should be the class teacher and SENCO . Hopefully they will put in some practical support (e.g. a TA) and some positivity. If he were in my class I`d be sending him home covered in stickers! Even the most challenging child does something `good` in the day -or can be supported to.

He is also very young to be identifying and managing his emotions and there are lots of strategies to support that e.g. stories, puppets.
Similarly `time out` can be seen as a punishment or a chance for respite . It seems it`s punishment at the moment , which doesn`t seem to be working.

The next step may be to check that he hasn`t got any underlying condition, particularly since this started before school but I`m sure that the professionals you have contacted will advise you.

Remember he`s only 4 and he needs a bit of help. You could probably do with some too! Try to have a lovely weekend.

madwomanintheattic Sat 15-Sep-12 15:33:04

<that sounded a bit bizarre - I meant that if there are other children being affected or endangered, there is often a better argument to get decent support for your son, not that they matter more. In an odd way it helps you out, as it makes it easier to prove he needs support. And if you can rope in a few parents to complain constructively, all the better. But they need to be sensible ones that will say 'this child is not being supported and he did x', not 'this child is evil, burn him.'

Good luck with the paed. It won't be fast - these things can take a long time to rumble along, especially if the paed feels his frustration is due to another factor and refers on. Waiting lists are a bitch, and school will be expected to cope. So make sure you keep that dialogue open with school as to what they are doing. Senco, senco, senco. And ht as necessary. A ct who says 'I can't cope' will need to be included in the discussion.

teacherlikesapples Sat 15-Sep-12 15:36:04

I agree with madwomanintheattic. Was he at nursery full-time? If they had stated his behaviour was anything like this-Any half decent nursery would have had IEPs in place (and passed these onto the school with a transition plan) They should also have referred him to an early intervention team (or similar) for an educational psychologist assessment, or at the very least sought advice on setting appropriate IEPS from them. So I would be having it up with the nursery for not appropriately supporting him (this is assuming you didn't brush off their suggestions)

The school now needs to be doing something similar. The teacher is behaving in a very unprofessional manner which doesn't help. I would be involving the head teacher and asking to involve the SENCO. This needs to be sorted quickly & professionally before it gets worse.

Tell them you want an IEP and behaviour support plan. Tell them you want access to an educational psychologist, who will come and observe him in the room ( she will also advise the teacher if there is anything she could be doing better- with her current attitude, I would say there will be plenty!)

A health visitor isn't going to be quick or effective enough in this case.

Thingymajigs Sat 15-Sep-12 15:37:11

I have been in a similar situation as you and the first thing I can advise is to try not to take things personally; sit back, relax and contact your health visitor. It is likely that you could have visits from Family Steps who will talk the situation through and try to find ways to help him and you to encourage good behaviour. He could also be assessed for any possible issues if and you could be given useful contacts to help with the process. Be open and communicative with the school, this really helped to ensure that my son (who was eventually diagnosed with autism, dyspraxia and anxiety issues) stayed in school with being continually suspended or expelled.

Thingymajigs Sat 15-Sep-12 15:39:23

*without
Sorry, I am typing on my phone.

roxynixon23 Sun 16-Sep-12 12:50:47

To be honest i dont even no what SENCO is sad my h/v is a waste of time
The teacher seems to think its because he is tired so is gonna sugest half days to the head and she is going to get him some suppport in class (even tho she sed this when he went on his first school visit and she didnt) i feel like im the one that had to kerp on pushing to get anyyhing done at all.the school and preschool new what he was like yet nothing was put in place sad they have let me and my little boy down and now we are all paying the price.the lady ftom the childrens centre is coming to observe us at home on tuesday so hopefuly she can get the ball rolling

madwomanintheattic Sun 16-Sep-12 16:18:27

A senco is responsible for special educational needs within a school. Every school has a senco. The senco of your school should have been the class teacher's first port of call if she felt that this behavior was outside the realms of 'normal' for a child at this stage.

Generally once kids hit school, the hv isn't involved (although technically they can be for under 5s) the school nurse service kicks in. They are also (imvho) useless.

Ask school (either ct or secretary) if you can make an appointment to discuss with the senco. Ct should be present as well.

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 16-Sep-12 16:19:29

Doubt he is a 'naughty boy'!

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 16-Sep-12 16:28:06

A part-time start is not a bad idea BUT I would be very cautious about agreeing to it without first establishing the causes if the behaviour. Otherwise you are giving them a solution and the green flag to ignore the issues and get out of supporting him.

A part-time attendance as a strategy for dealing with a known issue, with properly documented reviews and monitoring is one thing. A part-time attendance because they haven't got a clue what is going on and can't be bothered to find out but just want you Ds to disappear is something else entirely.

roxynixon23 Sun 16-Sep-12 19:34:06

I thort it a part time start would be good but then thort is she jusy doing it simply because she cant cope.so do i just mention about SENCO to the teacher or do i go to the head or mayb the person that is cuming out to us on tuesday?

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 16-Sep-12 20:19:32

I think, you should insist that any part time attendance will only be agreed on the advice of an educational psychologist after an observation and stick to your guns. You'll soon find out who the SENCO is as well as other people who may be able to help.

roxynixon23 Sun 16-Sep-12 22:10:07

You are definatly right,hopfully school will have spoke to the correct people and we can get things in place to help him smile he has been really good tonight so i no he can do it but just will need extra support at school, i dred picking him up allready as almost everyday the teacher makes him wait until last so she can speak to me.i feel he his being marked as the "naughty chil" without being givin a chance and help that he clearly needs.thankyou everyob
ne for your comments and support smile p.s keep em coming lol x

roxynixon23 Mon 17-Sep-12 16:52:04

So tonight after school i had a meeting with the teacher and the head and we have dicided to do half days as he is not 5 until may.they are also going to have a chat with the behaviour team at school to see if they can put somthing in place.ive said that yes half days are a good idea but he cant do that forever!they are putting his behaviour down to tiredness as it occurs more in the afternoon but ive sed i think it is somthing more. they are going to review the half day idea at half term.where do i go from here?

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