GO THE FUCK TO SLEEP. 3yo appearing to need less and less sleep every night.

[titferbrains]

Dd will be 3 in a few weeks. Baby due in a few weeks. She is still awake as I type but has been out in playground running about all day with CM. We went to seaside for a few days earlier this month, she ran around all day, lots of sea air etc. Still took a fucking age to go sleep. Up and out of bed etc.

Am getting really fucked off now. She just doesn't seem to need much sleep. Wakes about 730am bright as a frigging button while I lie in bed and moan. When nursery was on she seemed to fall asleep better. What do we need to do to make her fall asleep faster? Put her on a fucking hamster wheel for an hour a day?

[Oakmaiden]

It could well be the lack of a nursery routine has unsettled her sleep habits a little. Does she have a nap at nursery that she is missing at home? Bizarrely sometimes missing a nap can make nighttime sleep even more difficult.

What time does she actually settle to sleep? How much sleep is she getting?

If I am honest I have always had trouble getting my middle child to sleep, and ended up just giving her a later bedtime. She just doesn't seem to need as much sleep as I think she should have.

[VelvetSnow]

if your dd is as highly strung as you appear to be then it's no wonder she's not sleeping.... I realise the use of fuck all the time in your OP may be conveying your stress levels at the minute, but unneccessary IMHO, sorry.

Have you tried quiet time before bed?

[stellarpunk]

Get over yourself VelvetSnow...OP is entitled to express how she feels and not self-censor.

As for problem, black out blinds?

[VelvetSnow]

freedom of expression, yes absolutely. I was merely expressing my opinion.

I also offered advice.

No harm in that.

[Meglet]

at hamster wheel.

[titferbrains]

no she stopped napping a few months ago. She has the odd one here and there eg on long car journeys, sometimes in pram but any nap guarantees she will take an age to fall asleep at night.

She has never appeared to need or comprehend quiet time. Even when I read stories at bedtime (and lately I've been reading 2 or 3 instead of just one in an effort to help her unwind - to no avail) she cannot sit or lie still, constantly interrupting me or asking to get something, rearranging bunny etc. When she watches tv she never sits still. The only time she is really quiet and still is if she is really enjoying her food or doing something naughty.

She is a lovely bright sociable kid but I have been dealing with her poor sleep habits for 3 years now and I just have moments when it just drives me up the wall. I think it's because I like to unwind in the evening and I cannot relax if she is awake.

She is getting about 9 or 10 hours of sleep a night atm. Average about 10 I guess. But I can't deal with putting her to bed at 9pm every night!!!!

Has anyone had any success with story tapes before bedtime?? Can't see that it would help but maybe worth a try I guess. I mean for her to listen to after lights out to help her settle.

[titferbrains]

Not sure that blackout blinds would cut it either. Ideally I'd like to strap her to the bed and shut the door....

[VelvetSnow]

have you considered looking at what she's eating - this may sound odd but if it's something particular that gets her mind racing then perhaps it would be obvious from her eating habits??

I can't begin to imagine how frustrated you must feel, we've just got over our bad sleep habits but dd was 9 months, so stayed in her cot.

I expect your dd is getting up out of bed and coming downstairs and you're having to take her back to bed each time....

Have you tried the supernanny routine? Perserverence is the key I'm told, however I don't doubt you've tried this...

[Melfish]

OP I feel your pain. DD is 3 and a half and nods off about 9 and gets up at (used to be 8 am) but at the moment about 7.15. Don't have the added stress of a baby on the way but sometimes these late bedtimes drive me nuts. She's perfectly bright and perky all day (they sound almost identical in their fidgeting habits).

Got a couple of tips though, which can get her off early-
Read about 3 stories whilst insisting she's in bed and lying down whilst I do it, I hold the book up so she can see it if she lies side on. Mr Happy seems to send her off to sleep for some strange reason. I rub her head and forehead which seems to relax her. When she gets up I tell her I'm not reading until she is tucked up and she goes straight back to bed.
However on the nights when she's nowhere near sleeping at 9 I tell her she can play quietly in her room until she's tired which she generally does, and then puts herself to bed. Sometimes she calls, usually I tell her to get back to bed etc or I go up and check. I have put a stair gate on her door which I don't use now but did when she was your DD's age as she'd just roam around upstairs.
Not tried story tapes- the Harry Potter ones used to make me nod off though!

[titferbrains]

we do put her back to bed, she has no toys really in her bedroom to avoid distraction/playing after lights out.

Lately she has started asking for more food at night but I am fairly sure this is just a ruse to get attention/time out of the bedroom. And really, I cannot think that it is food that is setting her mind racing. She eats a fairly varied diet, and has fruit and yogurt for pudding, and milk at bedtime.

DH is just up with her now and she is saying I don't want to go to sleep, I want mummy, she needs more milk etc. Last night it was more water. When I went up to go to bed I found she'd gone into my room, found a pencil in my drawer and drawn on the DAB radio and bedside table, and spilled water on herself from my sportscup of water. I hadn't heard her as monitor hadn't been up on loud. I was speechless.

I just can't believe I am dealing with the same sort of unrelaxing evenings of constant checking and re-putting to bed that I went thru when dd was 1 and 2 years old!!!

She has only ever gone thru patches of of about a month or 6 weeks of sleeping well before things have gone out the window again.

[titferbrains]

melfish tks for post. I can't stand stairgates but I guess it may be time to consider them. She often wants to sit next to me when I read to her - this evening she lay down but was more interested in rearranging bunny's legs and telling him to lie down than partic listening to story. When I read I always stop reading - midsentence or whatever - until she lies still and says "I'm listening" and this happens several times every evening.

I have bought lots of new books recently which she enjoys but nothing particularly relaxes her. I do sometimes stroke her forehead to relax her but it's again no guarantee that she'll fall asleep.

Really, 3 stories and stroking plus general chat = a good half hour putting her to bed!! it just seems a long time and THEN I get so irritated when I've tried to do a nice calm bed time and I still have to go up because she's moving furniture or trying to come downstairs etc.

GRRR I think I am just an angry pregnant lady who needs to go to bed and think about this problem tomorrow.

[AmuseYourBouche]

Ha! VelvetSnow, come back here when you've had sleep problems for 3 years and see how 'highly strung' you are.

OP. You can relax and accept it and just put her to bed an hour or so later. I know its a pain but at least then she'll me more worn out and the bedtime routine will be quicker.

Or try and read some parenting books on sleep problems with toddlers. You might find some inspiration,

Sorry I can't be of more help. Hope it works itself out before the baby arrives.

Oh and repeat to yourself

[Meglet]

DD is almost 3 and has a stairgate. I went through a dreadful time of it in the spring when she wouldn't stay in bed. A couple of weeks of 60 rapid returns and pissing about until 9pm were normal. Then I just gave up and sat outside her door so she couldn't get out. After a couple of days of tantrums for 10 mins or so she realised the game was up and went to sleep, got a stairgate just after that and she never messed about again.

She sometimes climbs the stairgate in the morning, but not at stupid o'clock and bedtimes are still calm .

[VelvetSnow]

"Ha! VelvetSnow, come back here when you've had sleep problems for 3 years and see how 'highly strung' you are."

Ok, I will. And I'm sure the lovely people of MN will be available to offer advice and help, just like I have tried to do on this thread.

[TimeWasting]

I'd cut the dairy out, but that's my answer to everything atm.
I've just had a week of this, you have all my sympathy. DS never does more than 11 hours, it's been more like 10 recently. But then, I was exactly the same as a child, stay up late, get up early.

[TimeWasting]

Velvet, if you could be less nauseatingly patronising then your advice might be helpful.
As it is, you come across as naive and smug and therefore anything else you might say is untrustworthy.

[VelvetSnow]

I clicked on a thread, I said what I thought, I stand by it, I did not attack or insult anyone.

naive & smug, seriously?

I know me and know that regardless of the situation I wouldn't start a thread saying go the fuck to sleep especially when talking about a child, and although I understood the frustration I thought it was unneccessary, so I said so...

What's wrong with that?

[TimeWasting]

You are entirely entitled to your opinion, and to give the advice that you see fitting.
And I was just giving you some advice.

The OP clearly thought it was necessary to use those words, this is her life she's describing, who the fuck are you to tell her it was unnecessary?

titferbrains hope she slept better.

[VelvetSnow]

oh TimeWasting, I've slept since then...

I'm not carrying this on, thanks for your comments and observations.

Have a nice day

[TimeWasting]

Ok... you too?

[Dulra]

Ok back to the op!!

My dd just turned 4 went through a phase of this not too long ago, For me it was a shock to the system because she had always been a very reliable child with bedttimes etc. It coincided with clocks going forward all those months ago and bedtime just went mental. Same stuff you decsribed getting out of bed messing when reading her a story constant requests for food, water etc etc. It went on for hours!! What i found helped was actually letting her bring more dolls teddy's to bed with her cos the playing she seemed to need to do ended up being confined to her bed rather then the entire upstairs (including her little sisters room on one occasion who thankfully remained fast alseep!!). The bedtime antics have pretty much stopped but she defo does not drop instantly asleep like she used to do. Bedtime for her throughout did not change despite my dh telling me to try and put her up later but my sanity would not of taken a later bedtime. So she still goes up at 7pm dressed washed and to bed then story. I leave her at about 7.30 and hear her chatting, singing etc when i am downstairs I check her at 8 and nine times out of 10 she is fast asleep.

As I said for me it was a phase that did last a good couple of months and although she is not as good as she used to be she is not as bad as she was a few weeks ago. Good luck

[CornishMade]

No advice I'm afraid, but you may be able to laugh at this book - Go the Fuck to Sleep. www.amazon.co.uk/Go-F-Sleep-Adam-Mansbach/dp/0857862650?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[VelvetSnow]

Having looked at your link CornishMade and read the reviews on that book it seems that not everyone is as uptight as me when addressing a child....

I suppose I can see it for what it is...an adult reaction, to a childs action...fair enough.

OP - sorry for acting like an arse on my first post.

[titferbrains]

Dulra, thanks for your post - am not sure what kind of toys I can give her to keep her confined to her room. She often tells me she doesn't want to go to sleep etc. and I can see that she is unlikely to just fall asleep, but don't know about dolls being enough. Have ordered a few bits from Amazon today so will have a think about what would work as a quiet play toy.

My niece has a go glow torch/nightlight which she seemed to like so I may look into that as a distraction to keep her in her room. At least it's something I can take away if she misbehaves.

Am also looking into other CDs to listen to at bedtime to help her to relax.

Cornish - title was indeed inspired by the book.

VS - tks for apology, I only just managed to refrain from posting a seriously sweary reply to you - maybe best not to click on sweary titles if they offend? anyway not worth stressing over, just my bad mood and that's passed now.