AIBU to have a word at school tomorrow?

[Hando]

Dd (5) got a little bit upset earlier, she said she didn't want to go to school tomorrow - which she never says.

Upon further quizzing, she says that at the end of lunchtime play she was talkig in the line and got ticked off by the dinner lady. That's fine I explained, she knows they're not supposed to talk in line, she did, she got told off.

However, if they misbehave at playtime or luch time the kids have to do 5 minutes stood up against the wall as punishment time. Dd says that because this happened at the end fo playtime there was no time to do her 5 minutes so the dinner lady has told her she will have to do her 5 mins tomorrow for talking in the line today.

AIBU to be a bit at this method of punishing very young children. I have always believed that punishments for young children should be immediate to have effect. I would never say "no park trip tomorrow" or "no going to xxx's house to play next Friday" as they are so young that amount of time passing renders the punishment pointless.

Especially now as dd has had all this evening to think about it and has gone to bed still a bit stressed. She's quite sensitive and seems to be shattered at the end of the school like just like all the other kids, she doesn't need somthing (however small it seems) to be worrying about. Even if the dinner lady does let them off, she's put the idea in their minds today and upset dd. Am i being a bit pfb ish?

[MagNacarta]

sorry, but yes you are a bit.

[sandyballs]

Not pfb in my opinon. It seems odd. Like you say, punishments should be instant, not dragged out over the next day. I would mention it when dropping off tom.

[famishedass]

She won't be punished tomorrow, don't worry about it. Put it behind you.

[sandyballs]

It all seems very stict to me. She didn't shove anyone or swear.

[vinblanc]

You are right that it is silly to make the punishment tomorrow, but it's really not worth getting involved in.

Wait till you have a real problem and then wade in.

[Pannacotta]

No you aren't being at pfb IMO.
The school sounds pretty draconian to me and I would be livid if this happened to my DS who is nearly 5.
I cant understand why they are not allowed to talk in line, whats the reason for that?

As for the punishment, we had this at my junior school some 30 years ago and I was as upset about it as your DD is (I was about 10 the only time I had to stand against the wall but I still found it awful as a punishment).

I would say something for sure, dont know what to advise as I cant think of a polite way of putting it!

[GypsyMoth]

yes. think yabu....otherwise they wiull get the message that talking in line at that particular time won't lead to any punishments.

the instant punishment does apply to very young children. but not 5 year olds,they are old enough to have it carry on through to another day...

[morethanyoubargainfor]

no your not being UR, i would be mortified if i found out this was happening at Ds school.

I would be straight in school talking to the head first thing.

Your poor DD doesn't need to be upset because she talked, she is 5 FFS, sometimes we, as adults do things we shouldn't, rules get broken, and a telling off would suffice,it really isn't that bigger deal.

And i certianly don't think anybody should be made to stand against the wall for any length of time, thats just humilliating.

It makes me so for your DD and for all the other children that are mean't to endure this kind of stupid 'punishment'.

Its simple unjustified (IMHO) and completley OTT

[MmeLindt]

Punishments should be issued immediately. It is cruel to delay them.

I would have a quick word wiht the teacher, saying that while I understand that she has to obey the rules, it is not fair to have her worrying overnight.

This happened to me when I was in P6 and I can still remember the horrible weekend I had waiting for Monday. My Mum went in and had a word, and I still remember how happy I was that she stuck up for me.

[GypsyMoth]

just re read it....a dinner lady? not so sure actually.

[ConnieComplaint]

Yes, rules are rules.... but at 5-years-old the punishment should be immediate & the child should know the punishment is in direct relation to the 'crime'.... they shouldn't be made wait or sweat until the next day.

My ds is 5 in december & he has just started school - he's be very upset if he knew tomorrow he was going to be punished.

I don't agree with this kind of crap anyway.

I actually complained to his playgroup when he told me he dropped a sandwich & his 'teacher' told him "It can lie there until XXX (c/minder) comes & we'll see what she has to say about it!" (to me this was threatening him with c/minder too!)

[dogonpoints]

I can understand why you feel sad on behalf of your dd. If it were my dd, I'd say 'you know the rules, if you are given you r consequence tomorrow just do it, be brave, I love you'. That sort of thing. Take it on the chin.

[ConnieComplaint]

Thesecondcoming - I don't think anyone is saying children should be allowed to break the rules, all some of us are saying is that the punishment should be dealt there & then, not put off until tomorrow which means the child would worry for 2 days instead of getting it over & done with at the time of the rule breaking.

[dogonpoints]

There wasn't time for the 5 minute consequence. Not ideal but plain to see why the dinner lady said that.

[ConnieComplaint]

Yes - an alternative punishment. To be carried out at the time. So the child didn't have to wait overnight & worry

[ConnieComplaint]

Just to be clear - I would have no issue with my ds/dd being given the 5 minutes against the wall at the time of the rule breaking - same as everyone else.

It's the delay in the punishment I have an issue with.

Although if break was over I'm unsure what 'punishment' (hateful word) there would have been time for...

[Hando]

That was exactly my point Connie. I do not dispute the fact that she broke the rules and it's fair enough she got a ticking off, but to delay it til tomorrow is mean. 5 mins against a wall is a huge thing to some 5 yr olds, including mine.

I can understand why they can't talk in line, they need to get them all organised and into the school, head counts, coats off etc - learning when to be quiet doesn't harm them. I would never moan about dd being justifyably told off. She's a little chatterbox though so I full believe she did have a little gossip Ah well, she'll be ok. It's all a big step up from the fun they had in reception and it's hit quite a few of them hard. Now suddenly they have rules, no toys, lots of work, times when they have to be silent etc.

When I said dinner lady I mean the one who supervises in the playground not the one who spoons out the Sainsburys basics sausages and economy baked beans!

Also - Who said shoving and swearing? She's only 5! Surely there aren;t 5 yr olds who swear. "Poo head" "wee head" is probably the worst swear word dd could come up with! She definitely wasn't swearing!

[bethylou]

Hi, As a teacher I would say that the dinner lady will probably have forgotten about it by tomorrow so punishment will probably not happen. I wouldn't want any primary children being punished the next day, especially for such a minor thing, as each new day should be a fresh start.

In terms of how to go about dealing with it, especially near the beginning of term, I would probably have a quiet and calm word with the class teacher in the morning to say that your daughter was a bit upset about it and that ideally you feel that it should have been ddealt with today.

Remember that many dinner ladies/supervisors get very little training and the class teacher may not even be aware that this would be something they would do in your school! (Sorry to all you highly skilled and brilliant dinner ladies out there, but I have met some who seriously needed some training - just like the variation in teachers really!)

[elmofan]

yanbu - i agree its cruel to hold this over your lo head & leave her fretting about it , tbh if your dd has a restless nights sleep tonight over this i think you should have a word with her teacher about this tomorrow ,

[Pannacotta]

thesecondcoming I didnt say the rule was crap I simply asked why the kids need to be silent while in the queue.
Nor was I ranting, not that I have to answer to you.

I think standing a child against a wall for talking in line is pretty poor and I am entitled to my opinion.

I also dont agree with delayed punishment esp at this age.
IMO a clear, firm "Please be quiet" would have sufficed.

[morethanyoubargainfor]

pardon me for sharing my opinions, thought that was the point of these boards,

I am not saying that the child should not have consequences for breaking the rules but think the 'punishment doesn't exactly fit the crime' so to speak.

I have an issue on the whole standing by the rule thing, for all the children not just the op DD. its humilliating, but then i see children as equals in this world and you clearly don't, when is it acceptable to humilliate a child?

And just for theh record my ds can be a rule breaker but is far more conformist than thesecondcoming may think, he is well spoken, polite, well mannered and incrediably well rounded for a child raised in this mad world, and also he is also very happy.

[morethanyoubargainfor]

well said pannacotta, thats what i mean't!

[Hando]

Well. Dd was still abit worried about it this morning, even though I told her not to be.

So, the deputy was in the classroom this morning so I asked her for a quick word. I explained the situation and the deputy said not to worry, to tell dd all was ok, she would sort it. I explained that I appreciated her being told off if she is being cheeky but I didnt feel it was appropriate to make "punishments" wait a whole day - it's a long time for a 5 yr old to be upset about something. Also that I felt publicly humiliating a child by them having to stand in front of the whole class against the wall is far from the best way to get 5 yr olds to behave. She said again, she'd sort it, no problems. So I sat next to dd and told her before I left that it was all sorted, not to think about it anymore, all was forgotten.

Dd came home today and has told me that first thing this lunchtime she was put against the wall to do her 5 minutes. After I had promised her she wouldn't have to! I'm really bloody cross now. The deputy obviously didn't bother doing anything!