to feel disgusted if not particularly surprised , that so many faith schools fiddle their admissions criteria?

[LittleWhizzingBella]

OK we all know it goes on.

But the fact that these people are pretending to be beacons of moral, upstanding, ethical education while ensuring that disadvantaged children are kept outside, makes me feel bloody sick. Have these vile people really not moved on since the heyday of Victorian hypocrisy? How can they be so utterly vile while pretending to be christians?
about Pharisees... story here

I don't know why I'm so pissed off about it, I thought I was cynical and shocked by nothing. But there's something so horrible about them keeping children out of their precious schools because they're not the right type of children.

[hunkermunker]

Just because you is religious doesn't mean you is good.

Proof positive, eh? Vile.

Divisive, faith schools. Ban 'em.

[KayHiding]

mended linky

They're selfish and unpleasant people, and I do wonder what possible comfort it can possibly be to know that their children will have a good education, but have protectionist, pharisaical arses for parents.

[KayHiding]

um, I appear to have aimed for as many p words as I could in that comment...

[Tortington]

we dont want them there heathens in out schools

thats what state schools are fer

[LittleWhizzingBella]

They don't mind having the heathens if their parents have the right jobs.

[guyFAwkesreQuiem]

your link didn't work - but the BBC website says 1/2 of the 3,500 faith, grammar schools, foundation schools and independent academies weren't doing their admission properly - so a little unfair I think to say that it's just faith schools doing it.

Interesting to note that

"The problems were by and large such things as failing to define the terms "parent" or "sibling", "place of residence" or "distance from school"."

Also I notice in this article that problems have been highlighted with the "fixed" number of a maximum of 30 children per class.

Actually I'm more concerned with the bit in the BBC article which says that restrictions should be placed on sibling places! I can only begin to imagine the chaos that could be caused if that were to go through.

I think there are many problems with school admission with teh way it's done now - targetting faith schools is just an easy option IMO.

[LittleWhizzingBella]

No it's not just faith schools doing it.

But the sheer hypocrisy of them doing it, is what made me feel slightly nauseous when I heard the report this morning. They are supposed to be religious! Other selective schools don't pretend to be anything other than bastards.

[guyFAwkesreQuiem]

"Other selective schools don't pretend to be anything other than bastards."

PSML

[Tortington]

oh its more hypocritical if we* do it - ecuase we are meant to be better that you?

is that the argument? cos thats one big holy pants argument

hunker said it earlier - being religous doesn't make you nice.

being a nice person makes you nice.

[guyFAwkesreQuiem]

interesting that this says it was only 3000 schools that were looked at

About 1/2 of these schools had aspects which they may not comply with the code, and about 1/2 of those had clear breaches.

Now - in my maths that makes 1500 schools that may not comply, and about 750 that definitely don't..........not quite such a startling figure as the 3500, - there are approx 7000 faith schools in the UK - and the first article linked to in this thread makes it clear that it wasn't all Faith schools which were being bastards.

[LittleWhizzingBella]

It's not about being nice.

It's about being moral.

They pretend they are moral, FGS. And then they keep poor children out of their schools.

Don't tell me that's OK.

[LittleWhizzingBella]

I'm not saying it's all faith schools.

My DD goes to a faith school and they definitely are not doing it.

It's the ones which are doing it which make me sick.

I'm not too thrilled about the non-religious ones doing it either, though.

[stillstanding]

Oh come on - the article makes it clear that it was mostly administrative hitches rather than intentional ones. And now you are going to make a moral issue out of it?

[pingping]

Its not just Faith schools that are doing this and it didn't anywhere state that it was Catholic Faith schools

[pingping]

Also I know a local school that takes children from a different area completely because the parents are rich and then not give places to more local children thats a state school!

[bosch]

The article gets more reasonable as you read on - for example, about half way down it says 'most of the breaches of the code uncovered in the survey were administrative' - ie not quite the same as the impression that this discussion gives that faith schools are asking sneaky questions to exclude poor kids.

For my money, what's more worrying is that later on it is suggested to the conference that 'more schools should use lotteries or random allocation to decide who to admit'. I am hoping that my three children will get into local infant, junior and secondary schools, but if there's a lottery and there's a chance that they could get a place ?anywhere in the city? then I shall be a full time school run mum and buy a chelsea tractor! And not of course be able to afford to run it. Hmmm

[LittleWhizzingBella]

I didn't say it was catholic schools.

Is it really such a surprise that excluding poor children from religious schools is a moral issue for me SS?

Um, Jesus thought poverty, letting little children come unto him etc. was a moral issue.

Thought faith schools were kind of interested in what he had to say.

Admin Shmadmin. If you construct your admin procedures so that you can exclude certain types of children, you are doing a Bad Thing.

[stillstanding]

Agreed if the schools were constructing their admin proceduers to exclude certain types of children that would be a bad thing. But that isn't what the article said ...

[pingping]

Did it ever occur that the reason Faith schools don't have that many children that don't believe in that faith for a reason.

For example if a Catholic school took on 100 Muslim children it then would get complaints from the Muslim parents as there children would be taught about the Catholic religion it would also not be allowed to celebrate things like Christmas and Halloween as Muslims don't believe in that. At the local state schools in my area children have to say Happy holidays instead of christmas they are not allowed to do the Nativity play and have Christmas dinner So why should faith schools have to sacifice there beliefs.

[combustiblelemon]

To repeat it was ALL SCHOOLS NOT JUST FAITH SCHOOLS. It sounds like an administrative issue.

[dollius]

Oh not this again.

"Why should faith schools have to sacrifice their beliefs?"

Because they are blooming well state-funded, aren't they? They take our taxes and refuse to educate our children.

The last study done on this found that around 10% of faith school attendees get free school lunches, whereas 20% of community school attendees get them. So faith schools are not educating their fair share of children from deprived backgrounds. Therefore, they are certainly doing something to get more privileged children through the door.

And what they are doing is selecting the children they want with their fancy admissions procedures.

LWB is absolutely right. It is hyocrisy.

[harpsichordcarrier]

no combustible mum it is ~not ALL schools by any means.
it was faith schools and academies and foundation schools NOT other non-selecting schools. just in terms of sheer numbers of schools, the vast majority of the schools in question would have been faith schools.
the number of academies is currently tiny, covering around 1% of the school population.

although I fail to see that "academies do it too" is much of an excuse for breaking the law and acting in unfair and immoral ways, especially when the bodies concerned are using public money to educate our children in supposed moral ways. I think we have a right to expect those who set themselves up as moral guardians to behave at least in accordance with the law.

[guyFAwkesreQuiem]

dollius - my DS1 and 2 attend faith schools, they qualified for free school meals from March this year......however I didn't take them up until last month.

There are many other children which would qualify for them - but don't actually get them.

I believe the "stats" for free school dinners are not taken from the number of people that take them, but from the number of people that tick the little box on the child details form to say that they qualify. I know of several parents who don't tick that box, but would qualify for the free school meals.

Another stat this often skewed (especially in this town) is the number of children with SEN and SN that attend the schools. Half way between the CoE junior school and the Catholic junior school is a non-faith school which has an EXCELLENT SEN unit attached to it (but children are incorporated into the mainstream teaching) - it would be foolish for any parent to send their child to one of the faith schools when such an excellent facility exists. So that school has a disproportionally high figure of children with SEN, and the two faith schools have a proportionally low figure.

Also have an excellent school (actually 2 I believe as I've recently discovered there's a small senior school in the town too) which are solely for children with SN.

We don't live in a big town so the stats look totally skewed, when actuall.