To think Girl Guides should be inclusive of these trans children?

[ManicSunday]

The Girl Guides have now confirmed that female children (by which I mean those with XX chromosomes and a vagina) should be banned from Guides if they identify as trans. This includes both those who are identifying as boys and those who are identifying as 'non-binary' (which is a label a lot of young girls are choosing these days to indicate that they don't relate to either the stereotype of a man or the stereotype of a woman.)

Such children will be "discouraged" from joining and, if they are already Guides when they start questioning their gender identity, they will be asked to leave - even if they are happy in Guides, have friends there and could do with some stability at a difficult time of their life.

Meanwhile, young males (by which I mean people with XY chromosomes and penises) are welcome to join guides, go on residential trips and share communal showers and tents with girls just starting to go through the awkward stage of puberty, as long as they identify as being girls.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

[Bunbunbunny]

What!? That is completely bonkers, wouldn’t that be descrimination of a trans child? Is that actually verified from the girl guides?

[NoSquirrels]

Bunbun I'm afraid it's true.

It's extremely sad.

GirlGuiding's USP is that it's a safe space for girls - to challenge gender stereotypes. Now they're saying that if you 'identify' with gender stereotypes for 'girl' or 'woman' you're in, and if you reject them you're out.

It's a single 'gender' organisation now. Not single sex.

[Twinning1]

This is all madness! Guides is for little girls (with xx chromosomes) who identify as girls. Nothing wrong with saying that. It’s a group of like minded girls... I don’t expect to join every single group out there. Can I join the local men’s rugby club.... NO! Can I join a church for a religion I don’t support... NO! Can I enroll at my local primary school... NO! As a 35 year old atheist woman it’s inappropriate to join any of those “clubs” and I accept that.

[Puggles123]

If boys identifying as girls can join Guides, surely girls identifying as boys would be able to join the male equivalent (is it Scouts nowadays?). An easier solution would be to make them open to anyone, when we went on camps we always went with the Scout group anyway- things like that would be the greatest concern but they happen anyway. Both offer different stuff and I was always more outdoorsy so would have preferred scouts!

[NoSquirrels]

Puggles Scouts is open to both girls and boys anyway. It's a mixed sex youth organisation. So that's totally an option for any GNC or trans child already.

(Scouting became mixed sex because they faced a massive recruitment crisis in volunteers and had to admit women and girls so they'd get the adult volunteers to run units. Just an interesting but telling fact about who/how people volunteer...)

Currently GirlGuiding is the only 'single-sex' space for girls. Very importantly for some girls e.g. Muslims, Sikhs, certain categories of looked after children (fostered etc) who will not be permitted to attend mixed sex activities. You may personally disagree with a religion that restricts girls in this way, but currently GG offers young girls restricted in other areas an opportunity they'd otherwise miss out on.

Now a tiny minority group's feelings will trump these other girls opportunities ... and all without parental consent in most cases, which is anathema to safeguarding procedures.

[VerbeenaBeeks]

There's already a massive thread running on the exact same topic on here somewhere.

[VerbeenaBeeks]

If boys identifying as girls can join Guides, surely girls identifying as boys would be able to join the male equivalent (is it Scouts nowadays?).

Girls are definitely allowed in Cubs and Scouts and have been for a while, so stands to reason that it's only fair if boys can join Guides if they are trans.

[VerbeenaBeeks]

Such children will be "discouraged" from joining and, if they are already Guides when they start questioning their gender identity, they will be asked to leave - even if they are happy in Guides, have friends there and could do with some stability at a difficult time of their life.Meanwhile, young males (by which I mean people with XY chromosomes and penises) are welcome to join guides, go on residential trips and share communal showers and tents with girls just starting to go through the awkward stage of puberty, as long as they identify as being girls

So girls, if they are identifying or transitioning to boys, are being encouraged to join Scouts, is that right? Then boys are being encouraged to join Guides if they identify or are transitioning to girls? If so,surely that's just making it equal?

[Aintnothingbutaheartache]

All this ‘identifying ‘ shite has gone too far.
It’s called the GIRL guides and the BOY scouts for s reason.
Admittedly it’s beyond the realms of understanding that’s a girl who identifies as a boy will be asked to leave, but a boy who identifies as as a girl is welcome.
What a huge pile of anger inducing politically correct old bollocks

[VerbeenaBeeks]

It’s called the GIRL guides and the BOY scouts for s reason

So why have girls been allowed into BOY Cubs and Scouts for years now?

[MovingThisYearHopefully]

No surprise there. The guiding community also discriminates against children with SEN, like my daughter who has ASD. Typical of so-called Christian organisations who frequently display the least "Christian like" behaviour & values!

[Aintnothingbutaheartache]

Yes Verbbeena thank you for pointing out my very silly mistake. Also well done for missing my point entirely

[VerbeenaBeeks]

Yes Verbbeena thank you for pointing out my very silly mistake

You never said it was a mistake, I was merely asking a question based on what you said. Didn't miss your point as you said it was Guides for girls and Scouts for boys.
My point is that if girls are allowed into Scouts boys who identify as girls should be allowed into Guides. Makes it more equal. Which is presumably what they're aiming for.

[idontlikegin]

Do you need more pearls to clutch? You can borrow mine

[Aintnothingbutaheartache]

Oh Moving, I’m sorry but no one is going to be the least interested in SEN, ASD,ADHD etc.
Unless you are on the war path about your/or your child’s rights to ‘identity ‘ in any way you wish, regardless of your biological physiology then I’m afraid you need to get to the back of the line.
Incidentally, if you happen to be ‘in line’ for the disabled toilet may I suggest that you have a little think about why they are there, if you REALLY need to use it and are you possibly inconveniencing anyone?
😤

[Aintnothingbutaheartache]

Apologies for any unpleasantness verbeen just makes me so angry and frustrated

[RomanyRoots]

No, definitely not.

My dd is a scout, she likes being with boys as well as girls. i'm not sure how she'd feel if she was expected to shower with a trans.
I think if you have a penis you are different to somebody with a vagina, the two are different however you want to dress it up.

[Puggles123]

If girls can join Scouts anyway I’m not really sure why it would be a huge deal to open them up to both anyway. I do agree that for some it’s important to have a girls only space or a plethora of reasons, but not sure if this is it.

That’s a shame about SEN, when I went to Guides (nearly 2 decades ago) there were a few girls with SEN- and whilst the necessary support was given most got involved in everything and enjoyed it. I think some of their parents volunteered (out of choice) but it was definitely inclusive.

[Aintnothingbutaheartache]

idontlikegin was ‘clutching pearls’ aimed at me?

[MissusGeneHunt]

Agree with a previous poster, this GG thing is now about gender (which is a social construct anyway) and not about sex.

Also, WTF happens when a non binary girl, or trans boy doesn't want to do the cub or scout thing? They may prefer the activities of the GG movement... Surely because of inner feelings they are then discriminated? I thought the point of the GG new ethos was about rejecting social stereotypes? Funny how they're happy to bow to the woke brigade and shun safeguarding in their efforts to boost numbers though....

Am now totally and utterly confused by all this....

[writingbymoonlight]

Scouts is openly mixed sex; they have safeguarding procedures in place with this in mind. Guides continues to assert that it is single sex/gender and, as such, doesn’t differentiate between male bodied and female bodied adults and children when it comes to residentials, sleeping arrangements and bathroom facilities.

The Scouting movement, after asking its membership, opted to go mixed sex in order to save itself from oblivion. It doesn’t make sense though, in light of this, that Guides should also be mixed sex in the interests of fairness.

The wider membership of Guiding when asked have consistently indicated that they would prefer to remain single sex. At the very least, the membership should be consulted on the massive change in policy in explicit terms. It is not good enough to ask veiled questions about inclusivity in general as these will obscure the issue.

The cold hard facts of the matter are that girls are in overwhelming numbers the cohort who are more likely to be gender questioning - it’s somehing like a 2000% increase in referrals to the Tavistock clinic in a decade. Guides, by ‘managing out’ these female born children are being the opposite of inclusive and supportive.

[NoSquirrels]

What writing said. ^^

Scouting did not have to admit girls and women as leaders - it could have remained single sex. But it consulted its membership and acted accordingly.

GirlGuiding has not consulted its membership. It has not updated its safeguarding sufficiently as a Now mixed sex organisation.

For a group that’s been about a female space to reject gendered expectations it is now a group that promotes gender over and above female-born women and girls.

And it’s changed by stealth, after taking advice on ‘inclusivity’ from groups with distinctly questionable elements.

But everyone should turn a blind eye and ‘be nice’ about it...

[drspouse]

I think @Twinning has not heard of the Equality Act.
With its protected characteristic of sex. Not like-mindedness.

[AvoidingDM]

My previous post was a bit blunt for MNHQ.

However I'll stand by my words GG are deluded if they don't think the massive loophole they have put in their own Safeguarding legislation will be exploited by people who wish to access young girls.

I used to think that Canada was loopy teaching 6 genders to primary school children. But maybe they are right to be open about it and not allow people to be convinced thats transfemale was the same as female.

Male: born with male parts, thinks they are male
Female: born with female parts, thinks they are female
Transgender: Those who cross over or challenge common gender roles but don't necessarily get surgery.
Transsexual: Typically identifies as the opposite gender, and usually gets surgery to realign their outward gender with what they believe they are.
Two-spirited: Native American catch-all term for those who don't fulfill typical gender roles
Intersex: Someone who is of ambigous gender. Medically, this involves mixing of male and female genetalia as well as chromosomal combinations beyond simple XY or XX