To worry about my relationship with DS or will this pass

[WhatIWantToKnow]

DS is 16 almost 17. During the last few months it seems we can't talk anymore. Every conversation ends up in an argument. This is making me so sad, we've always had a good relationship, even in the more difficult years when we were struggling with a lot, we could always talk to him about our differences and disagreements.
Now, things are better finance/family etc. But DS seems to be on a "my parents are stupid and don't understand anything" mode the whole time. I know this is very typical of teenagers but I can't help worry that this will set the tone of our relationship with him forever :(

He seems to get upset, overly upset whenever me or DH try to tell him about something that we think needs to change. For example, if he stays up too late on a school night, really simple things like that. The moment I open my mouth, he interrupts me with "yeah yeah ok whatever" and either stops talking altogether or it turns into an argument where he shouts and (ashamed to admit) I lose my shit. DH has taken a step back and he thinks this is teenage behaviour and our relationship will be fine.
But I'm worried that for some reason, DS has decided that he can't trust us as adults and we're letting him down. And I will never know because he won't say, and if I try to ask, he gets upset. AIBU to be this worried?

Just for background, DS is doing fine at school, has a good social life , no drugs or anything like that. It's just his relationship with us seems to be a mess. And it's breaking my heart :(

[WhatIWantToKnow]

NC for this as I'm paranoid about online presence

[scaryteacher]

It does pass. It helped to point out to ds that the only person he hurt by not getting enough sleep and perhaps not getting good enough grades was him. There are a couple of good books, ' How to talk so teens will listen' and something with 'Takr me and Alex into town's in the title were both illuminating and useful.

My ds is now 22, doing his MA, gives me hugs when home, and calls me to chat!

[zeebeedee]

I think you will always have those kind of conversations with teens, but you have to make time to have non confrontational ones as well - if he's listening to music, ask who it is, what their other songs are like, etc so your teen feels listened to, plan 'dates' to watch certain things on TV (ours are crap like Lethal Weapon and Hawaii 5-0) together, thank them if/when they do the washing up/put the hoover round etc. Just kind of dilute the difficult conversations with positive ones - can be difficult if they are spending all their time in their room though....

[wictional]

if he's listening to music, ask who it is, what their other songs are like, etc so your teen feels listened to

Don’t make it sound like an interrogation of his tastes and choices though!

[EastMidsMummy]

Perfectly normal maddening teen behaviour. It will pass.

[zeebeedee]

wictional my teen DS loves it when he's 'educating' me about music - I don't always pay attention to what he's saying, but it's a positive interaction that rarely results in huffing off! Sometimes I suggest things I think he would like (he does like loads of old stuff) but not always.

[Couchpotato3]

It's all part of the psychological preparation for adulthood. Teens convince themselves that they know best and that the adults around them are useless - it helps them to cope with the process of leaving home and becoming independent.
In a year or two, your DS will probably be off at uni or whatever, and you will no longer have any say at all in what time he goes to bed, what he eats etc. He'll survive and learn things the hard way, but you can't protect him from himself. Step back as much as you can and don't sweat the small stuff. You (meaning both of you) will get through this and your relationship will recover,

[Subtleconstraints]

Totally normal I'd say op. I recognise the scenario about one's teen being overly upset when being reminded of basic expectations too. I read somewhere (I think it was in a book about the development of the teenage brain - something to do with the amygdala I think - that teens often experience parental coaching (hwr gentle) as an attack. So don't blame yourself; and your ds can't help it either! So try not to take it personally (easier said than done I know).

Also read somewhere about it being totally normal in terms of teens developing their own personas, that they have to detach from their parents in order to do this, and the detachment process is particularly angst ridden (ironically) for those that are very closely attached to their parents, if that makes sense!

Good advice from pp about keeping lines of communication open by trying to relate to teens on their terms, through music, interests etc.

Hang in there! It's awful while it is happening but there is light at the end of the tunnel (or so I am told)!

[WhatIWantToKnow]

Thank you all for your replies. They give me hope!!

I know part of the problem is me not being able to let go, in that I still feel I need to make sure he's properly fed/sleeps enough etc, and I can tell it gets on his nerve because he feels he can take care of himself, but when he stays up until 2 am on a school night, how can I be sure he really knows it's bad for him... DH says I should just let him and if he gets a bad mark (he - DS - does care about doing well at school), he will learn. Ugh, I want my baby boy back :(

I will try and make more time for non-confrontational time, maybe watch a movie with him and try to develop a taste for the horrible noise music he likes.

Something strange happens when I thank him for helping out (he occasionally will hoover, and always helps with setting up table, takes rubbish out etc) - he doesn't like it!! Apparently he's not a baby who needs a fuss when he does his part of chores. He KNOWS and WANTS to do it, and me thanking him means I think he's a little child

[zeebeedee]

WhatIWantToKnow - you don't have to like the music, just show an interest

[Fairenuff]

I get him being annoyed at you thanking him. You wouldn't thank your dh for cleaning up would you.

[WhatIWantToKnow]

fairenuff no I don't thank DH, but I thought I should encourage DS when he does something praiseworthy. Maybe he's grown up more than I realise and it's time for me to adjust my perspective sigh

[MyBrilliantDisguise]

I think he needs to learn that if he goes to bed late he'll be tired and the best way is for him to go to bed late and be absolutely knackered the next day. You can tell him until you're blue in the face, but in the end he has to learn from experience. As he's not driving, he's the only one who'll suffer from this, so I'd let him get on with it.

Perhaps instead of thanking him for doing something normal around the house, pay him the occasional compliment. One thing my kids loved was if I said a friend was having a problem with their child (of the same age - preferably someone they didn't know) and I could say "I felt really lucky that I don't have that problem."

Try to share some interests - the obvious thing would be films or box sets that you can watch together.

The thing is, none of us as adults would like to live in a house where we're criticised. He's just the same. We want to feel liked and loved and that someone thinks we're funny and interesting. Try to do this with him and let him learn from experience.

[WhatIWantToKnow]

The thing is, none of us as adults would like to live in a house where we're criticised. He's just the same. We want to feel liked and loved and that someone thinks we're funny and interesting. Try to do this with him and let him learn from experience
This is really good advice. I will have to train myself to see him as an adult, more and more although I feel he's still my baby

[Lojama75]

I find texting my daughter helps me to communicate more difficult issues.....avoids the confrontation and allows her to absorb stuff without either of us losing our shit....doesn't always work, and certainly not the only way to communicate! I tell her I love her/am proud of her etc via text too. Works for us (mostly!)

[Blackteadrinker77]

What do you do together? Just you two.

Like my DSS is 18, we go to golf driving range together, also play table tennis.
He plays football and computer games with his Dad and we all play poker as a family.

[Nanny0gg]

The moment I open my mouth, he interrupts me with "yeah yeah ok whatever"

I do think that needs pulling up. Tell him he can disagree with you but you owe each other the courtesy of listening first. And you do the same.

[BG2015]

My eldest DS is 18 and although we have good relationship he’s not the best communicator. I find the best time to talk is in the car or via text. He just finds it easier.

[Goodasgoldilox]

Remember the old saying about parents and children:
When you are 7 your parents know everything
When you are 14 your parents know nothing,
When you are 21... you are amazed at how much your parents have learnt in 7 years.

[Bluelady]

Totally normal. I used to say you put up with shedloads of shit when they're teenagers and just as hey revert to being really nice human beings they up and leave home! My step daughter was an utter and complete nightmare, she's lovely now.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

Buckle up, brace yourself and wait.

This too shall pass.

[alotalotalot]

I think it's normal. DS is like that but he's also really affectionate sometimes. I don't take it personally.

[meredintofpandiculation]

Yes, normal behaviour. There's an anecdote which you come across in various forms, roughly "When I went to university, I was amazed at how someone could reach my father's age and know so little about the world. When I returned, I was staggered by how much he'd learned in the intervening 4 years".

At coming up 17 he's little over a year from being an adult. This last year you need to let him practise being an adult, taking his own decisions and suffering the consequences. It's natural to want our children to benefit from our experience and not have to make the same mistakes as us, but they will learn best from making mistakes and feeling the effects.

[Worldsworstcook]

Traffic light system

Green - behaviour good - no issues!
Amber - not your cup of tea, bad music, awful hair, yucky clothes and weird hobbies - say nothing! It doesn't affect you and it's a phase that will pass (Dd had a awful fringe sweep and emo phase she came out of thank the lord)
Red - because you don't pull him up on the amber, kids are more likely to listen to you on topics you find alarming.

In other words, let him be and don't sweat the small stuff! If he's tired after late nights he'll start going to bed earlier himself. If his grades slide he's smart enough to pick them up. This too will pass!

[Mummyoflittledragon]

In response to his thought thanking him infantilises him, gratitude is expressed by adults. It’s little kids, who need to be taught. And make sure he sees you thanking others perhaps?