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To think if you had sex with a pupil you should not teach again?

(44 Posts)
Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 08:48:56

Surely?

I mean, regardless of the mitigating circumstances, surely this should not ever be allowed to happen?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/teacher-lesbian-fling-barton-pupil-13451577

So she could be teaching again in 5 years and if you read the actual link initially they only wanted to ban her for 2 years?

shock

Pengggwn Tue 31-Oct-17 08:51:11

Why doesn't it give the age of the pupil? I think, irrespective of the age of the pupil, she should not teach again. YANBU.

Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 08:55:22

I dont think it matters. It's still clearly a case of grooming and I am so troubled by the fact she could teach vulnerable young people again after having already groomed and sexually abused one.

disahsterdahling Tue 31-Oct-17 08:57:22

But she won't will she? Just because she can teach, doesn't mean that anyone will employ her. She'll have to disclose her conviction and hey presto, no job offer.

Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 08:59:35

Thats not the point.

I do understand what you mean: that the chances of her actually teaching again are slim.

But in giving her a theoretical green light to teach again, the national college are inferring that her conduct wasn't really that bad.

It was.

Pengggwn Tue 31-Oct-17 09:05:19

Eveningdusk

I think it does matter. If the pupil is 18 then it is a serious lapse in judgement but I don't think it is as serious as if the pupil is 15. I would support an outright ban if this "affair" was in fact abuse of a minor.

Darkblueskies Tue 31-Oct-17 09:06:33

I agree. It's a horrible and terrible thing to do. A misuse of a position of trust.

Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 09:09:53

Yes, but peng that is the point with her being banned from teaching and not tried through the criminal courts.

A teacher sleeping with a 14 year old is both breaking the law and committing gross misconduct.

A teacher sleeping with a 17 year old might not be breaking the law. But is still abusing their trust and as such is committing gross misconduct.

The point is, regardless of age, anyone who grooms and sleeps with a student should not be teaching, should not ever be given the opportunity to teach.

Primaryteach87 Tue 31-Oct-17 09:10:17

I think I agree OP. I was trying to think of any exceptions but I can’t really think of many... accept perhaps where the student is 18 and they met at an adult event prior to the (young) teacher working at the school. I mean theoretically you could meet at a bar with a 23 year old teacher and an 18 year old student and only find out later they were a student once you were already in a relationship?? But barring some soap opera style turn of events I think it should be the norm to be permenatly banned with v v rare exceptions.

Primaryteach87 Tue 31-Oct-17 09:10:32

Except not accept

AnguaResurgam Tue 31-Oct-17 09:15:26

They're following the HRA, which they are legally obliged to - the relevant laws on sentencing changed in about 2011 (?)

It is not legal to have penalties which have no possibility of parole/review, other than by specific sentencing for eg the very worst (probably serial) murders.

All people on SOR Can apply for review at certain intervals. Just like parole applications, it does nit mean they will be readily agreed.

tiggytape Tue 31-Oct-17 09:16:44

Having a 5 year ban doesn't mean the slate is wiped clean after 5 years. It means, after 5 years, she could apply to have the ban set aside.
It is far from automatic that this would be agreed to.

Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 09:18:00

No, angua, the national college can and do issue lifetime bans.

In my opinion this is an occasion where they should have done so.

Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 09:18:53

Again tiggy, its not the point.

The point is that in giving someone a five year ban for sleeping with a student, the gravity of that offence is minimised.

museumum Tue 31-Oct-17 09:19:14

I once spent a very flirty evening in the pub with a young man. It went no further, I was 17 so underage.
A few weeks later I went into sixth year and took a subject at a neighbouring school not offered at mine. He turned out to be the teacher!!!
Mortified!
And nothing was his fault.

Jellycatspyjamas Tue 31-Oct-17 09:22:34

A teacher sleeping with a 17 year old student is breaking the law, age of consent is irrelevant when it comes to breach of position of trust legislation. A teacher can't legally have a sexual relationship with someone who is their student and who is under the age of 18.

And yes, I think they should loose their career as a result of their behaviour.

Eveningdusk Tue 31-Oct-17 09:26:34

Yeah, thats totally the same museum

confused

donquixotedelamancha Tue 31-Oct-17 09:27:01

"However her ban could be removed in just five years."

That's not the same as 'it will be removed'. In less serious cases there has to be the option to review after a certain amount of time. I would guess the pupil is over 16.

That said, I agree that someone with such poor judgement and self restraint should never teach again. It might not be a criminal case, but it is still abusive and an serious breach of trust.

FellOutOfBed2wice Tue 31-Oct-17 09:27:36

Unfortunately some schools are desperate for teachers (especially in shortage subjects) and will employ anyone who hasn’t actually been convicted.

I had a relationship with a teacher of mine between the ages of 14-21, but no full sex until I was 16. When I was 21 he gave me an absolutely brutal beating after a heated argument and we split up. A few months later I heard he had been seen with a girl at his school who was in year 11. I went and reported him to the police and to the school.

The police said there wasn’t much they could do as it would be hard to prove it hadn’t happened prior to me being 16 and the law change in 2003 which meant teachers couldn’t sleep with their students who are over the age of consent. I argued that as he had known me since I was 11 and had immediately seemingly started grooming someone else he was a danger to the young people in his care but the police said the CPS wouldn’t take it on: it was his word against mine.

His school didn’t sack him but they asked him to resign and they said they’d give him a glowing reference. That’s what he did and since then he’s worked in six schools (it’s been 15+years) and seemingly gets into trouble in each new place for something but then just moves on.

He’s a dangerous predator, as a lot of these people are, but what can schools do- I assume when he starts at each new school they know nothing of what he’s capable of. He should be unable to work with young people but no crime has ever been recorded on a DBS check.

RafikiIsTheBest Tue 31-Oct-17 09:41:30

Felloutofbed, that is terrible! The law sucks as it is, even if you followed him from school to school trying to warn them you'd get done for slander and harassment.
If only all the schools would report him, surely the police could build a file of some sort. Terrible that a predator is allowed access to children like that, and I'm so sorry you were one of his 'prey'.

In terms of teachers and student relationships generally... or even school staff (I dated a member of staff in my teens, but he wasn't much older and didn't teach or really have much 'power')... I think it's difficult. I as a mature student at uni (if I was single) I would feel it was fine to date a tutor/lecturer/teacher, but not one that actually teaches my classes or is every likely to have anything to do with my studies. It seems a breach of ethics if nothing else. For a 18-year-old in college, with a young teacher (not that this woman was that young) doesn't really seem much different, if again they have no direct link.

I'm not as old as that teacher and no way would I be interested in any of the 18-year-olds I'm at uni with!

Pengggwn Tue 31-Oct-17 09:42:07

Eveningdusk

I said I think it matters if the student was 18. I don't think that is okay, but I think an outright ban may be disproportionate where the student is an adult.

flimflaminurjams Tue 31-Oct-17 09:52:20

she might not teach as such in a school again, but she might get private tutoring work, where no-one will ever know.

I don't understand why people cant just keep it in their pants until the person is no longer a student. Age is irrelevant as if a college student gets top marks, would it be due to talent or sleeping with tutor? Best to keep a safe distance.

SloeSloeQuickQuickGin Tue 31-Oct-17 09:57:22

Echoing fellout. School staffrooms are hot beds of gossip but even I was surprised when it came out that during my 8 years at one particular school , 9 teachers had been moved on , with glowing references of course, for inappropriate relationships pupils (I knew about 2 and the 3rd was forced into early retirement).

They weren't sexual but they were certainly inappropriate. Both male and female teachers.

Fruitcorner123 Tue 31-Oct-17 09:59:56

YaNBUThis is breaking the law even if the student was 18. They should be banned for life but i am sure she wont teach again.

nauticant Tue 31-Oct-17 10:07:26

I don't understand why people cant just keep it in their pants until the person is no longer a student

Because at that point, they no longer have authority over the student and their ability to manipulate the situation is much reduced.

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