AIBU in thinking DH is being a bit 'heavy handed'

[JeffVaderneedsatray]

I'm struggling with the way DH is dealing with an issue with DS, partly because I don't see it as the huge problem DH does, partly because I'm left to deal with the fall out and partly because I think such heavy handedness now leaves us with nowhere to go with truly serious issues in the future.
DS is 12 and has an ASC. He hates sleeping, always has, and will keep himself awake on purpose. (We think he is afraid of never waking up or possibly he just hates the day to end) We have tried many things tgo help him and have now got to the point where he will actually stay in bed once it's sleep time. He has music if he wants it, a dimmable light bulb and a lave lamp projecting soothing colours on the ceiling.
DS also sometimes genuinely struggles to get to sleep, like me. whereas DH pretty much goes to sleep when his head hits the pillow. DH is highly likely to be an undxed Aspie and seems to think that everyone should do as he does and just go to sleep!
DS is allowed to read in bed once we've said goodnight and he has a time to turn his light off. He was trusted to turn his light off himself but recently we've had to go back to us going in as he was carrying on reading on school nights until much later. Recently we've had a spate of DS then reading under the covers until very late which infuriates DH. If I catch him I remove the book and remind him he has to be up for school in the morning and that I expect him not to be grumpy in the morning. If DH catches him it's as if DS has been commiting the worst crime known to man!
Last night DH caught DS reading at about 11pm. He read the riot act and has told DS that he is no longer allowed to read after we've said goodnight. I don't know if he warned DS about that as I was on the phone to my mum at lights out time.
I really think DH is going over the top. It's likely a control thing. DH is a bit 'victorian dad' in terms of discipline, like he's regarding it all as a battle for control. I jsut think that if he goes in this heavy over something small then he's got nowhere to go with the really serious things later on.
I'm a bit more about natural consequences - if DS reads too late then he has to deal with being tired in the morning and he knows I will have no truck with tiredness induced stroppiness.
Sorry for the essay!
So, I suppose my question is AIBU to think DH is being overly strict and how the hell do I get him to see that?

[Bloodybridget]

Yes, it does sound heavy-handed to me, since your DS obviously has such issues with sleeping. I can see you've tried lots of ways to make bedtime easier for him; I wonder if there's anything else you could do, now he's older? Is it possible for all three of you to talk about it, with the aim of DS accepting that he needs to try and sleep at a reasonable time?

[Cath2907]

Sounds very heavy handed. I used to read under the covers. In fact I read far too late last night for a work night and am feeling very groggy this morning. Bad me! (I am 39!)

[Baalam]

DH is highly likely to be an undxed Aspie and seems to think that everyone should do as he does and just go to sleep!

Most people do, to be fair.

[Baalam]

DH is highly likely to be an undxed Aspie and seems to think that everyone should do as he does and just go to sleep!

Most people do, to be fair.

[LoveDeathPrizes]

If he's anything like my DD, he'll go to sleep at the point when he's tired and whatever he's doing up to that point is irrelevant. No amount of discipline will change that so you might as well make evenings nice for him.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Of course your DH is being heavy handed. What does he think telling a child off in that situation is going to do? The child can't help it, if he's left to read he probably won't read all night, he'll sleep eventually. My middle one would read until he fell asleep, even if he was up for school the next day. He just didn't need a lot of sleep. Some folk don't. (He also has an ASC).
Just as an aside, have you tried melatonin? I found it very helpful for two of mine.

[JeffVaderneedsatray]

LoveDeathPrizes I think that's my attitude actually.
I used to read by the light of the lampost outside my bedroom window.....
I think we've come a long way getting him to stay in bed and not play with his Lego so I'm a bit 'meh' about him reading.
But I'm coming to realise that DH and I are actually poles apart in terms of discipline.... I would never over ride him but I have had to point out that he is being 'victorian dad'.
His parents are incredibly strict. They think DS's problems could all have been solved by me smacking him more when he was smaller. I did smack DS once, I was desperate and we hadn't yet discovered he had an ASC. It backfired on me and when I told my MIL it proved smacking DS didn't work she replied that all it meant was that I hadn't smacked him hard enough.
DH, thankfully, believes smacking is wrong so I have no worries there.
I think we need a calm and sensible conversation.

[JeffVaderneedsatray]

Danwdonnaagain we've not gone down the melatonin route as we don't actually have a paed and getting to see one is a nightmare around here.
DS was dxed at 6 and saw the paed once after that before we were discharged......

[BishopBrennansArse]

I'm autistic. I hate bedtime because that's the time of day my brain refuses to shut off and decided to process all sorts of crap. So I'm trying to sleep but stupid stuff pings up like have I remembered to put x, y and z on the shopping list, are all the school consent forms dealt with etc.

The only way I can silence this is by reading myself to sleep. DH removes the book when he comes up. Otherwise I'll lay there wide awake for hours.

[RhodaBorrocks]

Your DH is definitely being over the top! My DS also has ASC and still gets up to play with lego (he's 10). Last night I caught him at 1am - he thought I was asleep!

In school times we use melatonin and it helps a bit, but as he's getting bigger he needs longer breaks from it for it to be effective. He's not yet big enough to increase his dose. He's on his summer holidays melatonin break now, hence being awake at 1am. He still got up at 8 this morning, absolutely fine. I average 6 hours sleep a night, I reckon DS will be like me. His DF only slept 4 hours a night.

But I'm a lifelong insomniac - I was awake at 1am last night too and I often read quite late to make myself sleepy. I'd love it if DS read in bed and didn't get up and play, especially as he has the tendency to destroy his room, feel sleepy and go to bed and leave carnage for me to find the next morning.


You should also point out to your DH that he should not punish your child for reading, and especially not stop him reading as a form of punishment. Any teacher will tell you that. I wish DS read more, so on the nights when I catch him reading late I just remind him he should have been wearing his glasses and now it is late and he must settle down. I can't remove all the books from his room though as there are so many!

[HeteronormativeHaybales]

I think the 'disciplinarian dad' thing is quite common; my dh (NT, although he does have one or two Aspie-ish traits) can get like this, and it does have a lot to do with upbringing. He had a very happy childhood with a pretty strict army father, so obviously has that model in his head and has not needed to reject it at a fundamental level as someone with an unhappy childhood may have done. He can tend to default to a response which approaches non-compliance as a threat - sometimes he's treated ds1 almost as if he were personally affronted by him, which is an absolutely stupid dynamic for the impending teenage years (ds1 also 12). He was also the younger of two sons and experienced his older brother being treated significantly more strictly, which means he is harder on our ds1 and constantly needs it pointing out to him.

I've sat dh down many a time and pointed all this out to him. I also have no compunction chucking the sacred united front out of the window and challenging him openly if I think he is being ridiculous too disciplinarian. He's crap at responding positively at the point of a conversation, but I do think some of it has sunk in, and I will keep going until the rest does.

[Schroedingerscatagain]

Hi Jeff

I totally get where you're coming from, DH and DD are aspies DS is dyspraxia with some aspie features

Both children slept well till they hit puberty and then had lots of problems, DD was prescribed melatonin by her paediatrician but DS has no paed so I've had to privately import from abroad

DH has typical black and white thinking and conveniently forgets he read under the covers as a child. He gets very cross with DS who like your DS unwinds reading or watching videos at bedtime

The rule I have is when we go to bed they must be in bed (DS DD) and if caught with electronic devices/ books etc they are removed till morning

DS particularly cannot self regulate and has to be regularly reminded, I find if I do this premptively it stops DH getting so het up but it does get wearing at times

We've just recently purchased some echo dots for the children which we can use to give an alarm when they should be settling down, bonus feature is they can play white noise and rain sounds which soothboth dc to sleep

[lifeinthecountry]

He's being very heavy-handed and completely over-reacting to a relatively minor issue. The way he's handling it is likely to damage his relationship with DS and almost invites more serious problems in the very near future.

[Tokelau]

I think your DH is being very unfair. I would love to 'just go to sleep' but I can't. I can only sleep if I read until I'm sleepy. If I turn the light off when I'm not sleepy, I end up lying there all night unable to sleep.

It sounds as if your DS is a bit like me. If he needs to read until he falls asleep, then he should be allowed to do that.

[fleshmarketclose]

I have two dc with autism and neither of them sleep anywhere near as much as you expect NT dc to sleep. It was hugely stressful when ds was small because he can actually manage on 10 hours sleep a week which nearly killed me. The stress only lessened when I stopped trying to get him to sleep and let him sleep when he wanted so long as he was quiet. Nowadays he sleeps anything between 0 and 6 hours a night and is mostly quiet although I have to remind him.
Dd 14 sleeps better and usually sleeps 5 or 6 hours a night. Even on school nights she is rarely asleep before 1am tbh, she reads,listens to music, draws until she sleeps. She still wouldn't sleep before one in a pitch black quiet room so it's better that she has something to occupy her til then.

[WashingMatilda]

I'm autistic. I hate bedtime because that's the time of day my brain refuses to shut off and decided to process all sorts of crap. So I'm trying to sleep but stupid stuff pings up like have I remembered to put x, y and z on the shopping list, are all the school consent forms dealt with etc.


Doesn't everyone do that??

[Neolara]

I don't think it's unusual for a 12yo to be awake at 11pm. My just 13yo has been shifting towards teen sleep patters for a while (late to sleep, late to wake up). I think this is completely normal. She nominally has a bed time of 9.30 but this often shifts to 10pm and then she potters around in her room until at least 10.30ish most nights.

What time does your ds go to bed?

[deblet]

My sons and my husband are all aspies. None of them sleep well and to be honest once you educate yourself on the various problems autistics have you realise quickly sleep is right up there with food issues. Your husband needs to educate himself as right now he is behaving like a neanderthal oaf. Do you not have a pediatrician? The first thing mine told my husband was that he needed to read up on his condition and come back when he had worked it out. This was after we had almost divorced because of DS1 food issues. My 14 year old sleeps about 4-5 hours a night. He occasionally sleeps all morning at the weekend but I think that's a teenage thing. I asked for help and was told let him read/play DS until he cannot function. Well he is top of his classes so doing ok. It is not for your husband to assume everyone is the same. Aspies are not the same as normal children and if your son needs less sleep he needs less sleep. Mine sleep more deeply I find if they go to bed late. Also can I point out that psychologists say the less sleep you are the smarter you are. Tell him that.

[JeffVaderneedsatray]

I think my worry is that he will spoil his relationship with DS.
In terms of bedtimes we turn devices off at about 7.30 to allow non device /screen time. Then they generally have snack and a story (despite DS being 12 he still insists we read to him each night and yes, I know he's too old really but he likes it and I like it and we also have DD to consider) about 8.30 and then it's rooms about 9.00 with reading until 9.30 but a bit later in the holidays.
I think Dh is stuck in DS being 'little' when actually he is 12 and will be 13 in October so things need to change.
Also DH doesn't have to deal with a tired DS as he leaves for work at 7.30 am on school days, weekends DS sleeps in and holidays DH has a lie in most days so sees DS later.
I do think I need to point a few things out to DH but also I need to reinforce to DS that he needs to not get caught!!
I think DH also worries because he knows I find it hard to go to bed unless I know the DCs are asleep. I need to change that now DS is more willing to stay in bed instead of having epic Lego battles at midnight like he used to do.
DH very much takes non compliance as a personal insult! I prefer to get stroppy about th things that matter!

[user1476869312]

Tell your H, once and for all, that he is not to bully the children and that you will not back him up and will actively undermine him if he doesn't start behaving sensibly. Constant undermining and mockery of bullying men is the best way to deal with them if a civil request hasn't worked.

[JeffVaderneedsatray]

Pengggwn I have no issue with a consequence decided by an adult however my issue is that the consequence is overly harsh.......

If DS thumps his sister then I impose a consequence - time out, device removed whatever. That's worth the struggle.
If DS eats all the ice creams I got him to last a fortnight in a week then the natural consequence is that he has no ice creams until I am prepared to buy more.
If DS deliberately sneaks an electronic device into his room once screens are off then he loses his devices for a period of time.
If DS stays up overly late reading then he is tired in the morning as a natural consequence plus he knows if he behaves badly because he is tired he will be faced with the consequences I choose.
I think if DH imposed a consequence that was not so draconian I wouldn't even be here writing this - I suggested that we set back lights out by 5 mins if he's caught reading after lights out or he has an extra chore to do or we set up another reward column on his chore chart and the consequence of reading after lights out is that he doesn't get that reward and thus loses the opportunity to earn cash (he's a mercenary wee soul!).
Sigh.

[LoveDeathPrizes]

I love that you read to him.

[HipsterHunter]

I'd try and get him to listen to an audiobook with the lights off - that way there is no 'barrier' to falling asleep like there is with reading with the lights on.

[bertieallsort]

2 of my dc have autism and both have struggled with sleep, with the eldest I used to be exhausted staying up until he went to sleep even though he was just reading in bed. His dr just told me that as long as he was safe, stayed in bed & had no problem getting up in the morning i should just go to sleep, that lots of kids with autism seem to just not need as much sleep. My youngest needs to have melatonin as he gets distressed as he gets really tired but can't get off to sleep. Sleep seems to be a major issue with kids with autism, but I think the problem is sometimes more how much the parent perceives it to be an issue. Does your dh maybe see it as a reflection on his parenting? I know my eldest's df thought he could just force these things and it'd be fine, not realising it made everything much worse (and that i was the one who ended up dealing with the consequences).