Law of attraction

[Faffyduck]

AIBU to think it's true?

Haven't mastered it so no evidence it is or isn't... But the theory is attractive after leaving mainstream/fundamental christianity...

Just wondering/having an internal philosophical debate as can't sleep tonight

[BOFster]

It's not really. But there's no harm having a positive attitude if it gets you through the day without crying.

[TheHermitCrab]

I tend to go for the "shit happens" philosophy. You don't have any rules, you wake up, live, and stuff happens to you/for you/around you.

Thats about it :)

[Faffyduck]

But isn't the idea that it's not simply positive thoughts?

Your attracting negative and positive things constantly by the way you think and feel?

[BOFster]

And how would that work, exactly? And why would it be any more logical than, say, praying, and imaging that makes a difference?

[Faffyduck]

Typed a reply and lost it. How annoying, sorry if it shows up eventually and I'm repeating myself

I can't see how praying doesn't fit neatly into the concept of law of attraction myself?

Isn't it that you ask, believe, receive? If you believe something strongly enough wouldn't you be putting out pretty strong "vibrations" to attract it?

I shook my faith eventually. But I can't deny that many people I know who have it - do get quite astonishing results with their prayers.

[OldLadyKnows]

I had to google it... If it can change the contents of an unopened envelope from a bill to a cheque I can see why it's an appealing notion.

But it's also bollox.

Re the power of prayer, there was an interesting experiment done on that a few years ago. A bunch of people with terminal diagnoses were split into three groups. One group was prayed for, but not told about it. Another was prayed for, and told about it. The third, control group, was not prayed for.

The "prayed for and knew it" group died fastest.

If people are getting "positive results" from praying, it's almost certainly because of confirmation bias.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.

[BOFster]

Have you got a link for that? I'd be interested to see it. I wonder if it means that once people are praying for you, you know you're fucked?

[Faffyduck]

I wouldn't be surprised at that, because when people pray for someone whose sick - they spend a lot of energy focusing on someone being sick... So attract it? That still works as far as I understand with this theory?

[adiposegirl]

I believe in it.

I am FAR from an oil painting.

Men have always told me they my confidence and that I have a certain something.

[OldLadyKnows]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercessory_prayer gives an interesting overview. I think the study I (only vaguely) recall was the STEP project.

Yes, BOF, I think it was the "oh shit I'm fucked" effect.

But Faffy, surely those praying would be focussing on "good vibes", rather than attracting sickness?

[Faffyduck]

Yes they would be intending to focus on the positive

But IME prayers for sick people often go:

Take away the sickness, stop the sickness, heal them...

Which really is confirming with a lot of energy that there is sickness?

I imagine (though may be talking out my arse as I am basing nearly all my knowledge on a not very recent viewing of the secret) that a more Lao friendly version would be

• so grateful that the person is well, so happy that the person has recovered, etc?

But it would need belief behind it I think...

[OldLadyKnows]

I'll bow out at this point, because it's late, but I would just query exactly how one would be grateful for the wellness of a terminally ill person? As I said, this is a new notion to me, so I'm ill-equipped to discuss or debate with you, esp as I'm an atheist! Perhaps you could ask again on the religious board?

[Faffyduck]

I don't think it would be easy... And kinda doesn't make sense anyhow as I don't think we could control others "vibrations" in what they attract to their own lives.

But you do hear of these times people get a diagnosis and determine to beat it, and do - despite it looking very grave medically.

Recently had a diagnosis myself, not terminal but worrying enough - suppose that's my vested interest in this, did I attract it? Can I attract health? How much power does our mind really hold over us?

I should be sleeping too. Docs appt in morning to discuss treatment - can't seem to switch off so in theory not helping myself here

[OldLadyKnows]

Ok, I'm back for one last post... If you say someone with a "grave" diagnosis can recover if they just "think positive"/attract positive vibes, aren't you rather "blaming" those who don't recover, for their own death? You can see how badly that could go.

It's like when people talk about karma, meaning that if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you in this lifetime. The concept isn't quite that simple, it can also mean that if you are having a shitty time in this life (you're poor, disabled in some way etc) it's your own fault, for something you did in a previous life. This kind of means that doing charitable stuff is, in some way, "wrong" because you're not allowing the "soul"/entity/whatever to learn the lesson it needs to learn.

Because I believe we only get one go, I think the notion of karma is utterly inhumane, and I'll stick with my humanist atheism.

And yet yes, our minds do have "power" over us, hence the placebo effect; and indeed, the nocebo effect. (Death via voodoo etc)

[Faffyduck]

I suppose it is on some level "blaming " but on the other hand how can somebody be responsible for something they never knew of/knew how to do in the first place?

I didn't think it was as simple as positive thoughts - just a completely non descriminating universe giving out good and negative based on vibrations we send out.

Some people have loads of crap to contend with in life, others seem to sail by, and then others somewhere balanced in between

I think I found it more offensive that it was "gods will" when I was a Christian that some people suffered and some didn't. I find it more appealing that there's possibility for humanity to be in control of their destiny...

[OldLadyKnows]

(I am waiting for the tumble drier to finish so we don't all go up in flames tonight, and I don't have to get up in the morning...)

I understand your point about "god's will" - why would an omnipotent and omniscient, benevolent being allow children to starve/be abused etc? The Christian God cannot exist, by very definition.

But the "universe" is a bunch of stars, planets etc, and they don't give much of a fuck either.

It is entirely (but not exclusively) human to want and to seek a "greater" being. We are a hierarchical species, and the vast majority of us will never be "boss", most of us don't even want to be, we'd sooner someone else was looking after us. But at the same time, we want to have some sort of control over our own lives, so there's your conundrum.

We then enter into the realm of politics, which is utterly (but again, not exclusively) human. Why are some of us, either globally or simply nationally, rich, and some poor? This is a planet which some argue is over-populated by humans, others would say we could all have Ok lives if resources were more equally shared. So why aren't they?

[OldLadyKnows]

(Tumbler finished, we're safe. :) )

I hope your appointment later today brings you good news. If it's not so great, it's not your fault, you didn't ask for it or deserve it, it's just life.

And put your faith in medicine, not the stars. It's not perfect, but at least it's (sort of) peer-reviewed and tested.

Sending positive vibes.

[silverstreak]

Interesting post of the sort not often posted on Aibu (& if so would normally be flamed off the forum I guess?!).... Am not at all religious in the conventional organised religion sense but I do believe in some sort of spirituality and in particular the energy of the universe and it's movement and manipulation so IMO what you propose is pretty reasonable. My sister is way more into it than me (in more of an occasional midnight speculator!) and has looked into it/researched it quite a bit under the heading of 'Manifestation',.... Maybe check that out for a non-religious/-'God' based angle? Also IME/O, I think the hardest part of the whole theory (& probably why it might not work for some) is the belief aspect....

[Hatespiders]

I'm not sure what this Attraction Philosophy is, but I gather you think positive thoughts and attract good things from 'The Universe'. I'm a churchgoer (CofE) but I had quite a shock last month. We're very short of money at the moment as FIL has been very ill and needed money transfers to pay for a clinic and treatment, so we really were scraping the barrel. I laughingly said to dh "Wouldn't it be fantastic if Fate sent us a huge cheque from out of nowhere?" Two days later, a letter arrived from one of our accounts with a sizeable 'interest refund'. I had to ring them to confirm, and it was quite true. They had neglected to inform us of a new system of early repayment on our loan and were obliged to refund us 'what we would have saved if we'd taken advantage of it'. The amount had been credited into our bank account. The lady had to spend a while convincing me it was true, and it's not even taxable either!! Several hundreds, a fabulous windfall! And FIL is now completely recovered (it was typhoid) We actually cried!!

[firesidechat]

In light of my personal circumstances I find this whole idea very offensive actually.

You appear to be quite happy with the concept that if my husband was positive enough then his cancer would be cured. So it's all his fault then. (Yes I know that I'm being all defensive, but this sort of claptrap really gets to me.) It does lead to victim blaming however you look at it.

By the way we are also Christians who have been to our fair share of fundamentalist churches along the way and this sort of attitude was evident in many of them. It's one of the many reasons that we don't go to church any more.

[firesidechat]

Oh and up until he developed cancer we had lead a very happy and "charmed" life. Perhaps we suddenly started sending out the wrong signals or something.

[Faffyduck]

Let's make something clear... This isn't a belief system I have cooked up this is something out there that exists for people to already subscribe to or not. Whether I do or not really makes little odds to anyone else, after all I believed christianity for a while - but am less likely to be told that was an offensive view to hold being its more widely accepted in the name of religious tolerance.

I don't personally think your husband failed at thinking himself better, or that law of attraction is as simple as positive thoughts and I didn't start this post to persuade anyone into thinking so.

I merely think the concept (which is not think positive thoughts and they always happen if you try hard enough) is plausible.

Oldlady - thanks for your interesting and thought provoking comments, your right this may go badly and get a flaming so will leave the post to fizzle out now this morning but really appreciated the time you took with me through my insomnia

[firesidechat]

I'm well aware that you haven't made it up, but that doesn't make it any less a load of old rubbish.

And yes I do appreciate the irony of being a Christian at the same time as pouring scorn on this sort of thing. In fairness though, we react in the same way to Christians telling us "if you just prayed hard enough" or "if you had more faith". Same thing really.

[DrDre]

Praying is just a load of rubbish. Might as well wave a wand and say "abracadabra" and then expect everything will be all right. I find it quite scary that people believe this claptrap. Sorry if this is rude, I had enough of this at the Catholic school I went to.

[noblegiraffe]

Jimmy Savile. Vile child abuser showered in honours, praise and riches. Where does he fit in?