To think this is ridiculous?

[silverfisher]

I took a look on the Turn2Us calculator to see what a family with the same makeup as our own, living in the same area, with the same housings situation as us, would be able to get in benefits on a £15,000 wage. It turns out that a family on a £15,000 salary would get so many top ups with tax credits and housing benefit etc that they would get the same income (including child benefit) as ours on a £45,000 wage (after tax).

So basically, these days you are not necessarily better off by working more and getting better pay as low incomes are always topped up so heavily that it makes little difference to your after tax income whether you dropped out of school and got a low paying job or whether you went to university, got into loads of debt and then did loads of 40+ hour weeks, you will end up with the same take home pay.

I know I will probably get a lot of criticism for this but I think it is totally demoralising to think that there is very little point in going to University or striving if you want to be better off economically and basically work doesn't actually pay.

[OwlinaTree]

Eh?

[catgirl1976]

Get a £15k a year job and claim your free massive TV then?

[DameDeepRedBetty]

I think longterm you'll still be better off.

[Tabby1963]

I sort of see what you are saying but, thinking about our household income, I found out that if I didn't do my part time job, we would be so much better off (lol) because of all the family credit allowance we could claim (plus other benefits).

However, I would go out of my mind without an outlet outside home, and I love my pt job.

One of my friends' husband works in farming, it is low paid, their income is about £15,000 too. I would not begrudge them any extras they can claim because I know he works really long hard hours to keep the family.

Finally, I would certainly be very unhappy to hear of people who DIDN'T work and got vast benefits for sitting on their arses all day watching Jeremy Kyle. That is unacceptable.

[Hamwidgeandcheps]

You wouldn't get housing benefit with a 15k salary. Where I am your income has to be less that 150 quid a week. My income on mat leave was 10k not counting tax credits and I didn't quality. Tax credits are counted toward hb benefit entitlement yabu

[LaurieFairyCake]

Yes it's true.

But the problem isn't 'benefits' - it's the low wages and the fact you need 45k to live on in some areas.

Wages need to rise.

[Crinkle77]

Do we really have to have another benefits thread?

[toboldlygo]

I went to university, racked up a massive debt, often work a 40+ hour week and still have a low-paid job. I don't receive any benefits. Eh?

[gordyslovesheep]

Housing Benefit isn't income - it goes to the landlord

as to the rest - if it's so spiffing you should do it - go for it OP you will love it

[YouTheCat]

Wtf?

I went to uni but have a low paid job because I had to make compromises in what work I could do due to my ds's severe SN.

Don't start assuming that everyone in low paid work has any say in the matter, even if they have worked bloody hard.

What a very silly attitude.

[DameFanny]

But they'd be more likely to be trapped in whatever house they were renting, because most of that money goes straight to a landlord - they would have very little margin for saving a deposit to move elsewhere, and of the landlord gives them notice they may well have to go into debt to find somewhere else.

The real scandal is that the government - recognising that minimum wage isn't a living wage - is, by giving tax credits and housing benefits top ups - subsidising companies who pay low wages and landlords who charge high rents.

[fluffyraggies]

So what's your solution OP?

Reduce those peoples benefits and let them slide into poverty and homelessness so that those on better incomes feel richer in comparison?

Benefits are worked out by how much a family needs to live on. Sadly it's allot these days and a vast percentage of the working population just don't earn that amount.

We can't all be brain surgeons. Who'd clean the streets? Or build the houses? etc.

[gordyslovesheep]

well as long as you are prepared to pay your cleaner/childminder etc £15 an hour ...and pay more for your shopping etc to support a LIVING WAGE you have to just suck it up OP

I went to university but chose a job helping people in the public sector - job satisfaction on a shit wage

[CoolaSchmoola]

As someone who worked hard and went to uni I can categorically state that the amount a person earns does NOT reflect how hard they work for it.

Some of the hardest jobs have lower salaries, just like some well paid jobs aren't actually that hard at all.

An18 year old married soldier with a children (and there are plenty of them) earns circa £17000 a year. He may be away for weeks and months on end, working 24 hours a day, with no actual days off at home. Please don't tell me you think they don't work hard.

OP you seem to equate working hard with education and high pay. You are wrong. The two don't always go hand in hand.

[Growlithe]

You haven't given us enough information for us to be able to tell whether it it ridiculous or not. You need to tell us all the answers you gave to all the questions in the calculator about your fictitious family on £15000. Then we can say whether it is fair.

[expatinscotland]

So jack it all end, go and work in a care home and live the life of Riley.

Yawn.

[cakebar]

You always have the choice of getting the 15k job though. Do you want to swap to be in that position? You can if you like.

The downsides would be that you would probably have to rent as the income wouldn't be enough to secure a big enough mortgage, and then you could be told to move home at any point and when the kids leave home your income will drop off a cliff.

I understand where you care coming from, we are in a very similar situation and we don't feel rich but I don't want to swap, and nor do I begrudge children of working low paid people the same standard of living as our children. Them being poorer would not make me feel better, which is what you are asking for.

[CajaDeLaMemoria]

And then along comes universal credit, and there is a massive income reduction for everyone, including the people who can't actually work due to disabilities.

Even for those people, who attend medicals and meetings and are judged unfit to work by the government, benefits are not fun. It's a constant worry that you won't get paid, that the rules will change, that you won't have enough to survive.

It's a very naive view to think otherwise.

[MissMarplesBloomers]

I work but on MW job post divorce. I get a bit of tax credits but because I work nothing much else.

I see it as a short term solution to getting me back on the employment ladder & out of (temporary) debt, I have paid tax for years & never had to claim for anything, luckily.

I don't begrudge a penny of it to me or anyone else who has short term difficulty due to the recession/unemployment/illness, I see it as a neccessary evil, and certainly not one I'd choose if I could.

There are those who CHOOSE not to work but actually OP they are very very few, most folks would rather have a job.

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

Oh, this hasn't been for --5 m

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

Oops wrong thread

[ihearsounds]

The calculator is inaccurate.
Tax credits are calculated as income when it comes to housing benefit. The more you earn, the less you get.

[PooFlower]

We have an income of just over 15k and dont get anywhere near that amount, two adults two children, mortgage on tiny terraced home so no housing benefit, I would love to know how you can get so much, Dds bed has just snapped and is propped up with boxes because we can't afford a new one, our bedroom has had crumbling plaster and no wallpaper for years because we cant afford repairs or to redecorate.

[foslady]

MissMarplesBloomers you are me! This week I've been officially given a permanent contract. It is for 3 days and I am covering a day of someones maternity leave for a year. Those 4 days will give me a wage circa £15k. OP, I'm really happy, it's the most I've been able to earn since having my dd 10 years ago when I left a well paid job to work part time as my now xh said his wage would be enough until dd was at 'an age'. Then he walked out on us. At that point I had to start claiming tax credits in order to exist. The 1st time ever (with the exception of child benefit I'd been reliant on the state).If you think there's any joy in the fact that my life depended on tax credits you are sadly mistaken. Grateful, yes, happy no, because it meant I needed the safety net to survive. My higher wage will mean I'm less dependent on that net which is a huge weight off my shoulders. CTC aren't for life. ANd by not working, how are you supposed to walk into a well paid job when they stop?

Start to look outside of your blinkers.

[Birdsgottafly]

You must either have lots of children, or live in a high tent house and are counting that as income, wether you would of been accepted by the Landlord if you were on HB is another matter.

Very few families receive even half of that in benefits, not including rent.

Benefit checkers on line are often incorrect, as unless you are on a gateway benefit, such as Income Support, HB doesn't work out as they state.