... in thinking Neil Kinnock was clairvoyant?

[woollyideas]

It took a few decades and two Tory governments and a Tory-lite New Labour government but Neil definitely could see into the future. This is what he said in June 1983:

If Margaret Thatcher is re-elected as prime minister on Thursday, I warn you.
I warn you that you will have pain?when healing and relief depend upon payment.
I warn you that you will have ignorance?when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right.
I warn you that you will have poverty?when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won?t pay in an economy that can?t pay.
I warn you that you will be cold?when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don?t notice and the poor can?t afford.
I warn you that you must not expect work?when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don?t earn, they don?t spend. When they don?t spend, work dies.
I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light.
I warn you that you will be quiet?when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient.
I warn you that you will have defence of a sort?with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding.
I warn you that you will be home-bound?when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up.
I warn you that you will borrow less?when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.
If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday?

• I warn you not to be ordinary
  
• I warn you not to be young
  
• I warn you not to fall ill
  
• I warn you not to get old.

[Bet01]

That's a fucking good speech isn't it?

[Callisto]

[FredFredGeorge]

If he was talking about Greece then he did pretty well - but I didn't think Thatcher ever became prime minister of greece?

[AnxiousPanxious]

Chilling
Sad that we didn't listen.
I said to dh the other day that we need another Kinnock, (one that doesn't trip backwards on a beach) as Labour lite have got fuck all for us.

[woollyideas]

What's with the face, Callisto? I mean, what is happening to our young, our sick, our unemployed, our old?

Or was it all the hyphens transforming themslves into question marks in my OP that has narked you?

[Proudnscary]

Good speech and I'm still just about left of centre in my politics - but I don't recognise the Britain I know and inhabit in these words to be honest.

We still have it very good compared to the rest of the world - the welfare state/NHS despite it's problems should be our pride our joy.

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

And labour only did good things ......?

Mmmmm, yeah okay.

[Meglet]

I saw him & Glenys driving out of the HOC a few months ago. They had a nice, sensible little car . Nothing like some of the other gas guzzling monsters parked in there.

[Proudnscary]

We are still one of the very, very few countries who do look after our vulnerable citizens and we shouldn't forget that.

[AnxiousPanxious]

The NHS is about to get fucked out of existence, with the aim of lining the pockets of the few who're in on the game.
We are being told this almost hourly in one way or another, but the intricacies of it are boring and difficult, and protesting them is hard.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Great speech, and scarily relevant. Shame old labour is no more.

[woollyideas]

Cookcleaner: take your blinkers off and note that Labour got a special mention in the OP!

[LittleWhiteWolf]

We are one of the few countries who try to look after our vulnerable and that is something to be proud of.

Its bloody hard to though when cuts made left, right and centre target the services who protect and care for the vulnerable, short-sightedly saving money for a few months before the costs rack up elsewhere.

[Proudnscary]

Anxious - yes but it is still there, it is still treating and helping millions of people. However eroded. Most other countries can only dream of this. Including the incredibly rich United States of America,

[woollyideas]

From 2013 learning will be a privilege when HE costs £9000 a year.
Pensions and benefits are already being eroded.
Fuel charges have gone through the roof because multinationals put profit before everything else.
We have a workfare programme in all but name.
We have riots and protests.
We have enormous fares and transport costs.
We have payday loans that charge over 1000% interest.

[longfingernails]

A benefits cap is fair, just and right. It is disgraceful it has been set so high as £26,000, but there you go. Trapping people into a benefits lifestyle with its associated dependency is bad for taxpayers, bad for society and bad for them.

Emasculating the teachers' unions who are destroying children's life chances and opportunities is fair, just and right.

Cutting quangos, the BBC, the civil service, diversity co-ordinators etc is fair, just and right. It is not only the Labour party which is so dangerous to this country - it is the entire panoply of left-leaning pseudo-staters who have had such a pernicious impact on British society over the last two decades.

Neil Kinnock was (and is) a prat living high on the hog that is the Brussels gravy train. Long may he continue in irrelevant obscurity. Cameron is pathetic - we need someone with Maggie's gumption. She was without a doubt the greatest Prime Minister since Churchill. However at least Cameron's heart is (broadly) in the right place, which is a lot more than you can say about Gordon Brown or Red Ed.

[Bet01]

Longfingernails I'd like to argue with you about this but you used the word "panoply" and now I'm frightened of you.

[AnxiousPanxious]

Proudnscary, my point is that it is being dismantled. We should not take any pride whatsoever in allowing this to happen. I saw the NHS described as the greatest humanitarian project anywhere, ever, in the history of humankind. Even if that's hyperbole, we should be fighting for it because it's bloody amazing (and I totally agree about the US). As things go, we are letting it seep into the pockets of the new generation of private healthcare service providers - they must be champing at the bit in anticipation.

After this goes, what will go next? It is all going. Slowly but surely. And I don't agree that we look out for the vulnerable: we look out for many of the vulnerable, others we tolerate as best we can. Soon enough it will be some of the vulnerable, the ones who don't have complex problems that need many agencies to be involved.

[longfingernails]

In my experience, the NHS is just about the worst rich-country healthcare system in the world, except America.

I think we should move to a hybrid between the French/German model of healthcare funding/provision.

Why exactly should the NHS run hospitals? Government-funded healthcare should be free at the point of use, of high quality, and should be efficient with taxpayer resources. Only the first of these is true of the NHS.

Unfortunately the Lansley reforms look like spaghetti. Initially they were quite promising, sweeping away layers of NHS management, and allowing any willing provider to tender to provide services - but because of various Lib Dem amendments, producer lobbying, and the size of Lansley's ego, it seems there will be almost as much bureaucracy as before. He should have learnt from Michael Gove - the skill with which Gove is dismantling the entire left-wing apparatus which has blighted our schools for so long is a joy to behold.

[mummymeister]

in any other profession Neil Kinnock would be a nobody. how he ever did so well in politics is frankly beyond me. if he had been a more effective opposition then perhaps things would be different. i am pleased to hear that the OP thinks he is a clairvoyant - at least there is one job he is good at and fit for. sorry i just cant stand him, he is everything i dislike about politicians. He never was in tune with the country - those of us old enough to remember his speech before the John Major shock win will attest to this. he still isnt now but hey hes on lots of money. i think all these tory bashers on mumsnet need to look at the things their wonderful labour party did when they were in office.

[YNK]

Great speach and scarily relevant today!

[DamnDeDoubtance]

Unfortunately Longfingernails the 26k benefit cap would not provide a safety net for anyone I know in the area that I live. Hardly fair or just.

I speak as a taxpayer who has never claimed anything.

Heaven forbid you should need to claim yourself.

[longfingernails]

DanbDeDoubtance I hope the Labour party uses your argument too - preferably as often as possible.

[samstown]

Shame old labour is no more.

Ah yes, because everything was just peachy under Old Labour in the 1970s.

[purits]

I lost concentration interest after a few sentences.
He always was a windbag.