Academic's talk cancelled because he would not show his passport

[Booboostwo]

This is truly outrageous. A philosopher's talk at Herts Uni was cancelled after he refused to show a copy of his passport. This is a British academic, from a British institution, giving a talk at a British institution (not that it matters). Since when do administrators decide academic lecture programmers on entirely arbitrary criteria involving requests for documents that are not even legally required?

www.timeshighereducation.com/news/philosophers-talk-cancelled-due-passport-rules

[Rochefort]

Appalling

[flumpybear]

Bizarre!!!!

[Parietal]

I saw this on twitter. I believe emails / letters of protest to the VC are being written.

[Parietal]

I saw this on twitter. I believe emails / letters of protest to the VC are being written.

[flumpybear]

Unless it's an interview for a job of course!

[Booboostwo]

It was two talks as part of the visiting speakers' program. He was invited, he accepted, a couple of weeks later he got a request for a copy of his passport, he refused, talks were cancelled. Herts Uni is trying to minimize this and blame him for not complying with internal procedures but this is a huge issue impacting on academic freedom and should be widely discussed.

[LockedOutOfMN]

Well done to him for refusing. Did the university say why they "needed" this documentation?

[Hoppinggreen]

Was he being paid?
I agree that it's ludicrous but I was recently asked by a Recruiter to show her my passport to prove I had the right to work in The UK. She agreed it was silly but she told me that she could be personally liable for a fine of up to £20000 ( her not her company) if it turned out I was actually NOT eligible.
If this IS the case then I would personally ask to see someone's passport before employing them, however silly that seemed

[MaudGonneMad]

I read about this. He wasn't being paid - in fact Hertfordshire's own emails stated explicitly that this was NOT employment.

[Ginmakesitallok]

If he's being paid then he needs to be prove that he can legally work in the UK. Nothing bizarre or appalling about that?

[NotDavidTennant]

Just some jobsworth in HR over-zealously interpreting employment laws as applying to visiting speakers. I bet a stern phone call from the VC's office awaits them on Monday.

[Rainbowshine]

If he was doing this as a self employed person he would still need to show eligibility to work in the UK for them, we do in our company. Fines and bad publicity for paying contractors huge sums of money if they aren't eligible is probably driving this. And yes, the person in this case does already work in the UK but each individual employer would need to have documents on file, you can't say to the Border Agency "oh he works for them so we thought it would be ok". It's the equivalent of Sainsbury's saying that the employee works for Tesco so we didn't need to check.

[Rainbowshine]

Sorry I meant to add that the person asking may not be aware that it is unpaid, as well.

[lightgreenglass]

They should be aware he wasn't getting paid. As they've now made a monumental cock up as he wasn't getting paid, therefore is not an employee.

[user7214743615]

For me, the most amusing thing about all this is that so many people (commenting on newspaper reports etc) take for granted that academics get paid for giving talks and that's why the passport was needed ..... hmm, no, we really don't get paid! We do so much "extra" work for free - reviewing for journals, advisory panels, talks at other universities, conferences etc.

[LynetteScavo]

Nobody has to have a passport.

Mil has never had one, and is quite able to prove her eligibility to work in the U.K.

[NotDavidTennant]

Although academic talks are generally unpaid, speakers sometimes will have their expenses covered so I wonder if this is where the confusion has come from?

[slightlyglitterbrained]

It is absolutely not like the equivalent of Sainsburys saying an employee works for Tesco so they do not need to check.

This is someone who has no employment relationship demanding sensitive information. I would not send a scan of my passport to J Random institution.

[AllPowerfulLizardPerson]

He's already an employee of a UK institution (Cardiff University) and previously of two others English universities.

As you are allowed to have foreign guest speakers, this is an enormous nonsense.

After all consultant employed by NHS trust A does not have to show passport to carry out a one-off procedure at a different hospital.

[Booboostwo]

He was not being paid, this is standard for such academic talks. It is customary to cover the speaker's expenses but the speaker is warned to take the cheapest transport/accommodation options available as anything above that won't be reimbursed.

This is not a misunderstanding, I know him personally, and he was in discussion with the person making the request to understand why they were asking for his passport. If this had been a misunderstanding about paid work he would have clarified it directly.

[Booboostwo]

What user72 said is also important.

I have done work for free organizing conferences, reviewing papers for conferences and journals, reviewing manuscripts for publishers, giving talks at other unis, giving talks in schools, museums, and other public venues, etc. It's considered part of the academic mission to share knowledge.

[MaryField]

I've recently heard about something similar to this, can't remember the details now, and the explaination was to do with the risk of radicalisation apparently.

[MaryField]

Meant to add a there...

[RandomMess]

Yes it's ridiculous - DH doesn't have a passport, I have made him get a photo drivers license (he passed his test but doesn't drive) just so he has some photo ID as it was a nightmare when we moved house!