Toxic relationship with my mum.. Advice needed

[babypleasenow]

Hello

This is a long a$$ story! Sorry in advance I'll just keep it as short as poss.

So a few months ago I started going to counselling as I was really struggling with my mental health and a lot of it stemmed from my time living with my stepdad and mum until I was about 21. I moved out and almost instantly had symptoms of ptsd so knew I needed help. At counselling the lady has told me I have suffered years and years of mental/emotional abuse and we are working on that (I'm getting better).

Without going Into too much detail, I have realised that I needed to either cut contact with my mum or take her to counselling and let her see/hear what I'm struggling with and allow her the opportunity to take responsibility and allow us to understand each other better and have a better relationship. A lot of the abuse came from my stepdad but she enabled it and let me down for a long time. Anyway, she didn't want to go with me and I asked her numerous times but she said she doesn't like counselling and that she doesn't think we need it.

Weeks later she randomly pops up asking me if I'd like to go with her to counselling but she then reveals that it's a lady she's seen before and has had counselling with previously. I have told her I'm not sure this is a good idea as they already know each other etc. She has snapped back saying 'do you want counselling or not', now I knew she would be annoyed but am I wrong for questioning if that's a good idea to see someone together that she's seen before?

[Gilead]

Is she playing trumps with you?

[MadMadMadamMim]

I don't think this is going to offer you what you want.

It appears to me that you want your Mum to come to counselling with you - to a person who has decided you have suffered years of mental abuse. It feels like you are expecting your DM to sit there whilst this counsellor tells your mother how she is responsible for all this and that your DM will suddenly instantly see that it's all her fault.

This is not going to happen. Do you think that your DMs counsellor will take her side, rather than yours? I'm not suggesting your mother isn't toxic, by the way. She may very well be. But you're not going to fix her by taking her to a counsellor to tell her this.

You say that your only other option is to go NC. That may well be what you need to do. I do not believe that your mother will ever accept that your issues are her fault. I speak as someone who has a fairly toxic mother.

[babypleasenow]

@MadMadMadamMim noooo! I don't want her to come to my counsellor, I think we should go to someone who we both don't know.

I know it won't fix her, but to carry on with our poor relationship without addressing how she's made me feel all these years, with her staying in denial and not knowing how we can move past things and have a healthy relationship seems impossible without having someone help us have difficult conversations. She has always been aggressive and nasty when confronted with opinions she doesn't agree with, I don't have the confidence or the tools to have difficult conversations with her alone. That's why I suggested the counselling. But maybe you are right, maybe it will cause more harm than good anyway. I haven't replied to her message, just feel like burying my head in the sand.

[lborgia]

I'm sorry, but going for counselling with her is a really bad idea. In a relationship where she had behaved like this, she will continue to have the power, and possibly make you feel even worse.

I don't have time right now, but can explain more if you want.

Essentially, you need a safe space to explore what's happened, and decide how to manage the relationship in the future. She will NOT change. She will not see the error of her ways. Can't you see she's already started, saying she doesn't think there's a point to counselling, now saying she's actually tried it before, and issuing demands and sulking?

Please spend your time and money speaking to someone on your own.

[lborgia]

@MadMadMadamMim xposts!

[Darker]

If be very surprised if a counsellor would suggest or agree to what your mother is suggesting.

[babypleasenow]

@lborgia I see your point. I just really wanted to give her a chance. I just feel everyone around me stays so neutral in this when I speak on it because they don't want to sway me and do encourage a relationship with her but I just feel so confused and worried. I also have two young siblings I worry she won't allow me to see if I go no contact, she has done this with my Nan and Auntie. They aren't allowed to see my siblings because my mum doesn't allow it anymore. I need to protect them, my brother took his own life because of this abuse. They are going to relive our childhood

[Coyoacan]

Well I know that in couple therapy, you are not supposed to go to joint therapy if one of the couple is abusive, so I imagine it is much the same here.

Maybe you need to get enough therapy to help you to accept that your mother isn't going to change overnight into the mother she should always have been.

[lborgia]

I'm supposed to be getting ready for work, but can't not answer...

First, gently but firmly, I'm going to say, why do you think she'll suddenly change after all these years? Why should she? No one has stood up to her this far. Ther fact that everyone around you is neutral proves that she is a nightmare and they don't want to deal with it.

If you were wrong they'd tell you not to be silly, or ask you what you're talking about. They're allowing her behaviour to continue.

Second, if you have two younger siblings, I would hope someone would report her. You're obviously not strong enough to do it - not judging, you're right in the middle of it, and still hoping it will be different. It won't.

I feel so sorry for you. I'm in my 50s, and it's only in the last 10 years that I've learned how to deal with this, and it's still hard.

[babypleasenow]

@lborgia thank you for replying to me. I don't think she will change, I just don't want to walk away without giving her that chance to listen to me. But I do realise it won't be any different to when I've tried all these years.

It's not illegal to keep your children from their family, it'd be no different if she was reported.

I think a big part of the emotional abuse is that because there's no physical evidence of it, I never have felt justified to walk away even though it's horrible.

[Darker]

How old are you, Baby? And how old are your siblings?

My heart goes out to you for trying. It’s incredibly hard to live with the hope that somehow it will change. It’s also very harmful to you to be around such toxicity.

There are techniques you can learn which can help, such a ‘grey rock’. This is where you don’t give the perpetrator the kick they want from confrontation or trying to know your business so they give up. You remain pleasant but neutral and give nothing away. The new job is fine - there is a lovely cafe nearby. The holiday was as you’d hoped. The counselling “oh yeah, I haven’t forgotten. I’m not sure it’s the best time for me at the moment. And I was meaning to ask you about so-and-so’s birthday...”

The best thing you can do is live your life and make sure the family stuff is as small a part of it as possible. It’s an awful cliche but it’s true. Cultivate your own garden.

[babypleasenow]

Hi @Darker,

I am 23 and my sisters are 7 and 11. I do agree with you. I have definitely tried keeping things the way you are suggesting for a long time.

It's so frustrating because when it comes to me needing her to listen and understand and maybe even show a little empathy she can't do it. But she doesn't stop asking about how I am and telling me she misses me. So I just feel guilt all the time that I don't want to see her or speak to her. It's so easy to forget how badly she's reacted to me crying out for her support and how she just ignored me and told me that she has her own stuff going on. She's so cold and just tells me I'll never understand things.

She's text me again saying if I want to go to this counselling with her therapist she needs to know today and if she doesn't hear from me she'll take it as a no, and that it's £30 each. As I ignored her message when I asked if it was a good idea to do counselling and she snapped and said 'do you want counselling or not'.

I just want someone to tell me what to do but I know no one has the answers

[babypleasenow]

To do counselling with HER therapist *

[Darker]

If you don't want to go, just say no. As I said above, no decent counsellor would agree to this.

If you want to engage, ask her for the name and contact details of the counsellor and look up their qualifications. (try BACP website).

[Leafy12]

I'm so sorry for what you have gone through. I don't recommend the joint counselling either. My Mum is similar to yours and there is no way I would engage in this with her. I have also told my Mum I am in counselling and why and it doesn't matter how many times we rehash the past I realise that she doesn't have the insight to understand or hear what I am saying. Probably she never will. I have not gone no contact, I do try and limit contact which is hard with someone who is used to bulldozing into my life and who I have enabled for years. She also asks me lots of questions so she wants to know and wants to maintain that we are friends except I don't feel like that and I may never really trust her after how she treated me and basically still treats me. Good luck OP.

[babypleasenow]

@Darker I think I just need to say no.

@Leafy12 hello and thank you for your reply. I think you are right. I'm probably just going to come away even more hurt. I'm going to have to work with my counsellor and ask how I can create boundaries (even though everyone says they don't work, probably right) or just say enough is enough. It's her way or no way. She didn't even let me know she'd had a change of heart and that she now wanted to go. She just sent me a date and asked if I could make it after weeks and weeks of not being interested. So weird

[Leafy12]

She is playing you to make sure you understand that she is still in charge. Boundaries do work but you have to be crystal clear on what yours are.

[TeeBee]

To be honest, my mother is exactly like this and I have experienced a similar past to the one that you appear to have done. Me and my siblings wrote her a letter explaining things that had really impacted on us. We received a 'sorry'. One word, that was it. She takes no responsibility for what happened, none. And that is what hurts the most. I have received no explanation from her about her behaviour or part in enabling her husbands behaviour...basically because there is no suitable explanation and she knows it. I suspect you won't get what you're hoping for from her. She is already being hostile towards you, not welcoming the chance to connect with you. She wants counselling on her terms with someone that has already heard her side of the story. Sounds like she is looking to minimalise this not allow you to feel heard. If you want to give her the opportunity to hear your side, you could always write her a letter. But please brace yourself that it may not have the effect you're hoping for.

[babypleasenow]

Hey @TeeBee. It's nice to know I'm not alone, thank you for replying. From what you have said, I feel like you are talking about my own Mother it's very weird. I haven't wrote her a letter, but I have sent her a few big text messages which took SO much for me to do. All I got back was, that she is hurt and she is damaged, she has her own stuff going on and that I should have stood up for myself more, lots of blame and denial. She is still with her husband and I don't believe really that I will get what I'm looking for so I'm not sure what I was expecting. It's weird. I know you understand that it's really hard to explain and no one really understands because you have been through a similar past. I think I just need to focus on myself and I'm going to be ok which is the main thing. I hope you find your peace or have found it xx

[TeeBee]

I'm so sorry you are having to go through the same stuff, it really is shit to know that you'll never have a decent parent. All of her daughters are now no contact with her to protect their own sanity. She still keeps pushing those boundaries and sending correspondence (still without acknowledging the past, which shows to me she doesn't want to be questioned on it). She has done some dreadful things and I don't see why I should tolerate it just because she gave birth to me. I feel terrible about going no contact sometimes because it means that my children miss out on a grandparent but it really is the only thing I can do to protect my own mental health now. She loves playing the victim but I honestly think that most people have copped onto her game now and just don't want to play anymore.
To say you should have stood up for yourself is pretty disgusting. Imagine saying that to one of your own children. It doesn't matter what other stuff she had on, she was a mother first. Turns out she's a shit one. I'd focus your energies on people who do have a positive impact on your life, not one that you will never get anything but heartache from.

[TeeBee]

Also, can you imagine your children coming to you in the future saying they want you to go to counselling with them for things that happened in their childhood and they want you to acknowledge their pain. I'd be there like a fucking shot trying to understand their feelings and expressing my utter apologies for any part I had in hurting them, unpicking why I acted like that and how I could avoid hurting them in the future. Listening to them, letting them feel heard. Isn't that what normal people would do?? They wouldn't make it all on their terms and be rude and aggressive about it. That's not what your mother is doing. It seems she is continuing on minimising your pain to shut you up. She wasn't capable of being a mother then and she isn't now.
Does your 11 year-old sibling have a phone? You could still stay in contact with them that way. That's what I do. I also let them know that I am always there if they need me. There is nothing wrong in taking a step back to protect yourself.

[babypleasenow]

@TeeBee everything you say is absolutely bang on. I feel so relieved reading what you are saying because it's EXACTLY how I feel. I couldn't ever in a million years imagine dismissing my child when they are struggling mentally (especially when she's already lost my brother to Mental health), because she has got it worse (in her opinion). It absolutely disgusts me and really reminds me why I shouldn't bother with her but then I go right back around in the circle and feel guilt again! Yes... all the does is minimise me and brush everything under the carpet because it's easier for her. It's sickening.

My sister has a phone, but my mum is really controlling and my sister has recently opened up about how unhappy she is at home with them and it was like listening to myself when I was a child and no one could help me because I was so scared.

[TeeBee]

Is it worth trying to get your sister some support through school? You do need to look after yourself otherwise you'll never be in a position to help her. Distancing yourself is a good way to do that.
Do you know what the good thing is? You will never ever be like your mother. You will be a fantastic mother because you will make sure you won't be the way that's she's been.

[babypleasenow]

@TeeBee I'm having conversations with my counsellor about how we can help my sister so hoping she will be ok. I can't wait to be a Mum! I have so much love to give and I really want that opportunity.

I have just told her I don't want the relationship anymore and that the only contact we should have is about the kids. She basically came back and told me she's sick of people taking the mick out of her and that I'm right about our relationship being toxic.

[Puttingouthefirewithgasoline]

Op slightly going agaisnt some posters here although I do agree 99% I'm actually thinking, even though she maybe trying to take control etc it's still a good thing that she has suggested it and if you're strong enough to take it if it is Frant work out.

A friend of mine came close to suicide and then saw a counsellor, the counsellors tried to get her to ask her parents to attend as well and they refused.
The counsellor was sure she could get through to them and unfortunately, they did attend and the counsellors apologised and said she was correct they were "immovable *.

They, would never consider it so I think this seems like quite a tiny chink of light.

She may not realise she's trying to control still and perhaps this is something you could raise? Even ask if it wouldn't be better to see someone totally a fresh when your there?

I always give second chances, sometimes a third but after that...

I know I've done my best.