Civil service advice

[snowdrop27]

I've heard the civil service is flexible. Ideally I'd like to work 21 hours a week, 3 days, term time only, 7am-2pm. Is this realistic? I'm not currently in the civil service.

Also is the 60% office based strict? I could probably juggle kids to do one day in London, but couldn't travel in more than that. Is there the option to work from a more local office?

Thanks

[Anameisaname]

Big push in the CS to attend office but not sure about local offices. I am sure that would count especially as they want to push everyone out of London by 2027 anyway.
The working pattern you suggested is possible but really depends on the job. I would suggest that it may be a bit tricky to find although I've also heard of other jobs like retail which offer that kind of flexibility

[MalbecandToast]

Civil Service will insist on a 30 min unpaid break after 6 hours, so you cannot just work 7 hours straight through. I can't speak for all departments but mine certainly does not like us working before 8am as we cannot contact others because their offices are not open yet. As for attending the office, most CS I know are now 3 in the office, 2 at home. Term-Time contracts might be available but will very much depend on which department as not suitable in all cases.

[Devilshands]

It completely depends on the job and the department.

Central departments (FCDO/MOD/HO/Cabinet Office) are far stricter about attendance. The 60% is mandatory - at least for everyone I know in those departments and most of them are in 100% of the time. The only people exempt are those with caring responsibilities - and you have to jump through quite a few hoops tbh. Some jobs cannot be done in local offices. But again, depends on the department and the job.

21 hours is (probably) too low across 3 days as that's 7 hours a day. A standard CS working day is about 7.5hours. I'd also be realistic about what you would do if you had an urgent piece of work come in and had to go at 2 and you couldn't stay 30-60 minutes longer and the effect that would/could have on your workplace performance and colleagues. Ministerial departments in particular will be difficult about that.

Honestly, the CS is far less flexible than people really think it is. It IS flexible. But there are a lot of limits these days.

Edit: I should have said, lots of departments are talking about voluntary redundancies and there is a recruitment freeze in some departments. It's strangely competitive atm - partly because of COL and partly because people are worried about redundancies. I just did a sift for a HEO (really DULL) policy job. I had 80 applicants. EIGHTY.

[snowdrop27]

Thanks - I'm interested in department of health and social care or department for education if that helps. Lots of the jobs say flexible working but no more info than that. Almost no jobs in department for education - maybe that will change in new financial year?

[snowdrop27]

Thanks - this is all really helpful. Would they class young children as caring responsibility? I don't know how people juggle it all with young children if they don't live in London!

[Merrow]

60% is now mandatory and getting pushed hard. In our department working for a more local office is not currently an option, although I believe discussions are ongoing. We have very good Flexi but you're not allowed to do more than a 6 hour stretch without a break. Can only be in the office before 8am if there's a business need / special arrangement (I believe this is because of security staffing).

[Mrsttcno1]

Being completely honest, no, that’s not realistic.

CS is flexible but it’s not that flexible, there has to be a bit of give and take. Office attendance is being strictly enforced and tracked now for the 60% across the board at least everybody I know is expected to do that now.

You could negotiate flexibility but it’s not going to be 3 days 7-2 plus term time.

By “flexible working” what the adverts usually mean is that you can, within reason, start & finish whenever you like so it’s not rota, and you have flexi time so you could work for example 9 hours 1 days and then 5 the next if you wanted to. Even people well established within departments are getting rejected for term time now even after really fighting for it because it’s really difficult to run a department with someone gone for 6/7 weeks at a time so I really wouldn’t bank on getting that.

[Bells3032]

I think you will struggle a lot with those limits. I don't think they even do term time only contracts anymore and unlikely in central govt. may be able to do a benefits office job or something similar.

From my understanding DfE is one of the strictest within the CS regarding the 60% office attendance and one of the first to implement it

[Mrsttcno1]

@snowdrop27

Thanks - this is all really helpful. Would they class young children as caring responsibility? I don't know how people juggle it all with young children if they don't live in London!

No they don’t, because then anybody who has kids would be exempt from the office police.

One of my colleagues recently tried to push this as they need to do nursery pick ups and despite taking it all the way, the answer was no. You cannot get a SWA or Carers Passport simply for having kids.

[Devilshands]

Sorry, OP. Children don't count.

1. A carer is anyone who cares, unpaid, for a friend, partner or family member who due to illness, disability, a mental health problem or an addiction cannot cope without their support. The care they give is unpaid although they may be eligible for financial support, such as the carer’s allowance. The carer’s passport can be completed by any employee who has caring responsibilities which they believe could have an impact on their ability to work currently or at some point in the future.

The carers passport is to help people struggling with caring responsibilities (parents with dementia)- not childcare (unless your child has disabilities /long-term health conditions).

https://www.cfcs.org.uk/help-advice/caring-for-others/carers-passport-and-statement/

[snowdrop27]

Thanks all - this is a real shame but at least I know the reality on the ground. Maybe need to wait until the kids are a bit older to make this work!

[Orangeandnavy]

There may be current civil servants who have negotiated that sort of pattern but very unlikely to be externally advertised jobs which will allow it. Especially the term time only aspect. Do you have very niche skills which will help you negotiate?
In my office we had one term time only but it didn’t work well for the business and further requests were denied. Creates problems with other people taking leave in peak periods.
As for location. Can be flexible but many offices are struggling to accommodate the uplift to 60% attendance so have no space at the moment. It’s too early to say how much people will comply with the 60% as it only starts on 1st April across most of the CS.

[Mrsttcno1]

It’s worth having a think about it OP because there could still be ways to juggle it depending on what support/facilities you have available to you. Most CS staff do that, the benefit of the flexible working is that you have the option to spread your hours across a longer day with breaks, or work longer hours on days when you have help etc.

For example one of my colleagues works 7am-8:30am, then does school/nursery drop off, logs back on at about 09:30 and works until about 14:30, then logs back on 17:00-18:30 when her husband is home (on her wfh days). Doing it this way means she builds up about 35 mins of flexi on her work from home days so if a shorter day is needed later in the week she has the time to take. On her office days her husband does drop off so she is in the office for 7am ready to start and works until 2pm when she leaves to do pick up, then she logs on again for an hour once her husband is home.

There is almost always ways to juggle it due to the flexibility :)

[CloningTheSheep]

Perhaps look at an arms length body to the CS - so not CS exactly but able to make up their own rules.

I work for one and once in its very flexible. Quite a few people work 3 days and they often start and finish early. We have to be in 1 day a week which is fairly strict.

I imagine term time only might be more of a problem though as the work is year round and colleagues would have to pick up the slack.

I pretty much take most of school holidays off excepting the summer because I don't get enough holiday!

We're not in London.

[AprilofHearts]

My Whitehall Dept was more flexible pre-COVID than now.

Now it's 24h a week minimum. 50 mins lunch break minimum. 60% in the office minimum. For me on 3 days a week that means 2 days in the office. Earliest official start time 8am. So my 7.2 (ish) working hours means 8-4.

Quite heavily enforced at the moment too.

[DarkCloudy]

The 60% thing isn’t uniform across departments. My dept is more like 40% because there aren’t enough desks for 60%.

I don’t know if anyone that works as flexibly as you are suggesting.

Where are you based? Most depts have regional offices now so you won’t necessarily be London based.

[snowdrop27]

Thanks all.

I'm based in Wiltshire, so Swindon/ Bristol would be most feasible - but I'm most interested in roles which relate to children's social care which seem to be mostly London based (other than department for levelling up which I think can be Bristol based).

[Starrrz]

@snowdrop27 have u appiled ?
im starting prt time in end of april!
apparently where i am, 40% in pffice and 60% from home.
i feel nervous starting as hoping it wont bw super hard xx

[RRBB1920]

Young children would not be classed as caring responsibilities unless they are disabled on my cs dept I would think all cs depts if I'm honest. There is parental leave though.