I've been asked to give a reference to a poorly performing staff member? What on earth do I write?

[KitKat1985]

So, I'm a staff nurse and last night one of my nursing assistants asked me if I could give them a job reference. The problem is she's not good. At all. She regularly turns up late, she always checking her phone, and another colleague recently complained that she was smoking in the staff room (obviously not allowed). I regularly get people complaining to me that she's lazy and doesn't pull her weight. I tried to side-step the reference issue by saying maybe it would be better if she asked a manager but she said she wants me to do it as I've worked with her for longer (this is only sort of true, as I worked with her briefly about 4 years ago, and then we worked in difference places for about 3 years until she started working where I now work a few months ago). What the hell am I going to write on this reference when I get asked? I know I'm not supposed to write anything negative but I'm going to struggle to write a glowing one. Anyone been in this position before and have any tips?

[FreckledLeopard]

If you did want to give honest feedback, do it by phone and don't document it. That way you can tell the prospective employer the truth, without risking legal comeback.

[Pico2]

As an agency worker, won't she just not be asked back if found to be unsatisfactory by a workplace?

[TartanFly89]

I'm a staff nurse with NHS and recently applied to a different health board and an agency, Scottish nursing guild. Both sent set questions to my references which was as previously said dates of employment, sickness record and qualities etc, you could just say you don't know official dates or sickness record and can't access it as your not the manager. Save yourself the awkward situation lol. Good luck!

[AgentProvocateur]

I have given a bad reference before, but all the issues were documented. It's nonsense to say you're not allowed to give a bad reference.

In this case, I'd give the dates and the absences and add a line to say you'd be happy to discuss further in a phone call. This is code for " don't touch with a barge pole"

[lljkk]

I may have a similar issue at work in future and I am dreading it. In my industry people tend to write very detailed references so keeping it brief & minimally factual would scream alarm bells, at very least. We have a colleague who can be very difficult without actually being truly impossible. Argh. Feel for you.

[rookiemere]

Why on earth would you throw in anything positive OP?

I'd simply state the dates employed and leave it at that, or better ring up your HR and get their guidance. I'm in the financial sector and we're simply not allowed to give out references.

Also I'd be very wary of even giving more information over the phone - if she doesn't get the job because of your reference and they're not issues she's been pulled up for - sorry I don't know if you are her boss or not - then she could rightly complain about it.

[P1nkP0ppy]

Ask HR for advice.
I refuse to give anyone a reference beyond facts: job title and hours, start date, end date, any sick leave and that's it.
As a former empires glowing references made me very suspicious and it's up to the new employer to establish their suitability through the interview, and if offered a job then the probationary period.

[P1nkP0ppy]

*employer not empire

[ImperialBlether]

I'd put the dates she worked and my phone number, saying you'll be glad to answer any questions.

On the other hand, if she doesn't get that job, you'll be lumbered with her forever!

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I think you do need to avoid giving a reference if you can, get HR to do it, and if they can't or if it absolutely has to be you, then try to find a couple of positives and leave it at that; you've already given one e.g. of her being willing to work extra hours at short notice, how about her general appearance, is she normally neat and tidy? Is she a pleasant enough person?
When she actually does do a job, does she do it well? You can find positives in there if you think outside the normal range of criteria.

[Hormonal1]

Don't do it, I know someone who gave a reference in a similar situation and it broke company rules and he was sacked as it was seen as 'representing the company' even though he stated it was a personal reference. It's not worth the risk.

[DoreenLethal]

Yes she has said she wants a reference from me because it has to be someone professional who has known her for at least 3 years, and she hasn't known our manager / charge nurse for that long.

Actually you might find that the protocol kicks in no matter what she wants.

Why not find out before you actually write anything? Most places the reference request goes straight to HR to do.

[EatSleepTeachRepeat]

Have to agree with PP - in my line of work you DON'T want a glowing reference: It screams of an employer wanting to get rid!

Not lies as such but playing up all of the positives and downplaying negatives.

Its a minefield - I'd deffo run it past HR

[KitKat1985]

Thanks for all of your advice. I think I'll try to keep the reference as brief as possible and just stick to the bare facts (like the dates when I know her). If they ask about sickness, lateness etc I can just (honestly) say that I don't have access to the records as I am not her manager.

[DoreenLethal]

Thanks for all of your advice. I think I'll try to keep the reference as brief as possible

You don't think it is worth checking with HR that you are allowed to do it then?

[nicestrongtea]

If you are not her direct line manager you shouldn't be giving a reference!

Seriously it happens all the time -dodgy people go to someone other than their line manager for a reason .
Say no!

[frikadela01]

Seriously check with HR. I work in NHS and know someone who got suspended for giving a reference to another nurse. It's just a big no no unless you're the person's line manager. Regardless of how long your manager has known her they can comment on her employment record accurately.

[KitKat1985]

Yes I will check with my manager / HR that I can too (sorry forgot to say that).

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Manager wrote, "Mary worked at X from x month year to y month year." That was it. Hopefully prospective employer could read between the (sparse) lines!"

Hopefully not! Some companies only ever do this for any employee now, so it would be unfair to think that a short, factual reference means the employee is a bad one.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"If you are not her direct line manager you shouldn't be giving a reference!

Seriously it happens all the time -dodgy people go to someone other than their line manager for a reason .
Say no!"

Some people don't work very much with their line manager though. And it's not always the employee who is dodgy, it could be the manager.
I've asked superiors who were not line managers if they would give me a reference. Two were very willing although they pointed out that the boss's higher title would look better. Another agreed, but said that she would have to state in the reference that she was not my manager. It's also possible to ask a colleague for a reference that you would officially call a character reference...

[SecretBondGirl]

Her line manager has to be one of the referees. If I found her rubbish I'd decline to provide her with a reference. You don't have to be referee

[longtimelurking]

As a manager or employer if you have a 'bad' employee then surely it is in your interest to write a good or neutral reference in the hope of getting rid of the person easily??!

Obviously lying by giving a glowing reference is wrong...... but would it be bad just to keep it factual but short, i.e: "X person has worked here from [date] to [date] in [role]. S/he has had X days off sick".

Next employer can make of it what they will?

[SkiptonLass2]

We aren't allowed to give personal references, everything has to go through HR.

That gives you an easy out "I'd love to but it all has to go through HR , some sort of legal thing apparently... "

[SkiptonLass2]

And don't give her a reference! You could get into a lot of trouble yourself