Employer addressing me taking day off with sick child

[solveproblem]

I've been with my current employer for a year, I have not had any days off sick for myself but a few when my chikdren have been poorly. In this year I've been here I've probably had 5 days off with them.

This month I've had 1.5 days off. My childminder phoned at 3pm one day (I normally finish at 5) and told me my DS1 had been sick so I left work to pick him up.
My husband stayed home the following day with him and then I took a day off with him.

Today I got called in to a meeting where my boss addressed this and said it is putting them in an awkward position, but that he understands that I need to stay home with my children when they're sick.

I said that I was terribly sorry but that I had not had a choice but to stay home, I also explained that me and my husband always share these days equally between us.

He again said that it's "putting them in an awkward position" with me having days off. They will not deduct anything from my wages this time but if this continues we will have to have further discussions.

Now, I know for a fact this will continue, kids are kids and they are going to get sick now and then.

So can anyone please tell me what my rights (and responsibilities) are when it comes to taking days off with poorly children?

[swingofthings]

I was a single mum of 2 working FT. It was inevitable that there would be some days I couldn't work. Their nursery was very good and looked after them giving calpol and cuddles and only called me if they were really poorly.

When that happened, I always made sure to take work home with me and did as much as I could after they'd gone to bed. I also offered to work extra and went in on my day off a couple of times, until my boss told me that it was ok and not to worry.

I think he was cool about it because I tried to so hard to ensure these instances were exceptional. I never had 5 days off a year due to them being sick. When they go chicken pox, I took the week off holiday.

[Lsmummy1]

So yes, edit to my other comment, obviously there was some accurate legal and helpful advice given, as I said some people (maybe you, again don't know exactly what you said) were helpful and really understanding. My 'rant' was directed towards the many people that made unhelpful comments such as '5 days a year is excessive' or 'get childcare and do you job' if neither of these things apply to you then I have no idea why you've bothered replying and getting offended

[Lsmummy1]

I didn't come to offer advice. I was expressing an opinion of how shocked I was at SOME of the lack of support and unhelpful comments, something which I have every right to express.

I never gave the impression I was here to be helpful, as you quite rightly say, I'm sure the situation has been resolved after all these years.... why would I try and offer advice or help?

I'm not sure why you've got a bee in your bonnet, I never addressed your comments personally... if you feel that they perhaps fall into the category of judgemental and hence I'm addressing you, then maybe you don't actually feel your posts were helpful after all

You don't need to apologise, as I said I have no idea what your specific comments were and this 'rant' has nothing to do with you personally, so maybe don't make it about you.

[flowery]

I'm sure the OP's situation has been resolved now, and she no longer needs any advice...!

However Lsmummy1 as you feel there was "no helpful accurate legal advice given here other than the fact you are entitled to take reasonable time off to look after your children as stated on the Gov website" perhaps you'd like to add some now? Otherwise it does look like you've come on just for a rant rather than to be helpful.!

Looking back at just my own posts, I can see I gave more advice than that, and I can assure you my advice was both legally accurate and helpful, including what kind of instances and what lengths of time would be considered reasonable from a legal point of view. Sorry if you didn't feel it was helpful enough.

[Lsmummy1]

Nonsensical means by definition, having no meaning. Rant? Perhaps, due to the nature of the replies, but what I wrote was entirely related and encompassed meaning directly to the op and that of the replies.

Just like to point out you've come on a 7 year old thread to reply to my comment. Same difference?

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

You've come on to a 7 year old thread to have a nonsensical rant.

[Lsmummy1]

Well clearly you've replied.... agreed that this is a platform for factual information. Worth mentioning though that there was no helpful accurate legal advice given here other than the fact you are entitled to take reasonable time off to look after your children as stated on the Gov website. The majority though, seems to be other Mums being judgemental and scathing about a Mum having 3 days off over a year and making unhelpful comments such as 'your personal problems are not your employers problems' not sure you'd receive such harsh words somewhere like citizens advice.... somewhere where people are actually qualified to offer accurate advice, not their own judgemental opinions.

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

Who are you expecting to reply to from 7 years ago? And this board is not primarily for hugs and head pats but advice about what to expect legally.

[Lsmummy1]

This is an old thread, but I am actually disgusted by the majority of these answers!! If a child is poorly then as a mum or dad it is your right and obligation to care for them! Why should you expect grandparents who might still be working themselves or elderly to risk becoming ill as well! For so many of you to write that it isn't the employers problem is abhorrent. If an employer CHOOSES to employ women of child bearing age or with children, then guess what, especially if your children are in nursery they are going to get Ill! To expect Mums or Dads to maybe have 2 days off a year with their sick children is laughable! Especially for under 5s or newly school age children! Realistically most parents will be off at least 5 times a year with young children. Of course if someone is having time off each and every month then of course you'd want something to be in place if its occurring all the time, but for some of you to suggest an emergency nanny for a sick young child - someone the child might not even know?! Do you know anything at all about attachment? Shocking. So sad that this poor mum came here looking for some backing for the fact that she was being treated extremely unfairly by her employer and was met with all these responses, what happened to women supporting women? I will say I dont expect employers to pay you if your child is poorly, that is fair enough I suppose and I personally don't receive any pay when my child is ill, but I would expect full understanding when I have to take occasional time off. Additionally I hold no judgement for mums or dads who do make alternative arrangements when their child is ill, that is personal choice but the lack of understanding going the other way for a mum wanting to be with her ill children is disgusting

[solveproblem]

Thanks for all your replies.

Apparently it was brought up as one of my collegues found it unfair that I was getting "days off".

I mainly work with men and the ones that have children also have SAHM's. I suppose they never have to deal with a situation like this themselves.

The collegue who thought it was unfair also recently found out that I'm on more money than him so he's getting funny about things in general.

Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it any more, my kids will always come first and a job is only a job after all.

[AgentProvocateur]

It was me who said an hour or two. I used to work in a public sector organisation, and we'd use an unpaid day, but then the part of the organisation I worked for was hived off and sold to a new owner - some sort of private equity company I think. That was one of the changes they made - the argument being that it was a time critical job. You won't be surprised to hear that none of the original staff are still there - just a succession of workers on short-term contacts, hired on an as-and-when basis.

[flowerytaleofNewYork]

Emergency dependents leave would cover a day or two for each illness, (not an hour or two, whoever it was that said that). The number of days per year is specifically not defined in law.

So looking after a sick child for one or two days is perfectly reasonable. Taking a fortnight to look after a child with chicken pox or whatever is not covered under that right, as after a couple of days it is no longer an emergency and you would be expected to make alternative arrangements. In most cases, because most employers aren't completely heartless and wouldn't expect a sick child to be cared for by a stranger, if you make every effort to find someone else to look after them and can't, then taking holiday, unpaid leave or making the time up later is usually ok.

Where it is usually not ok is when (usually) women do all the taking time off rather than taking turns with their partner/child's father.

OP it sounds like you have a good record yourself, and are ensuring your husband does his fair share.

I agree with HermioneE that the problem is probably that your employer is not going to be able to continue to pay you for further days off sick, not that he is planning to discipline you or similar. If he was the kind who would be inclined to discipline in this situation, he would not be the kind to pay you for that time in the first place I'd say. You say yourself he said he understands you need to stay home when your children are ill.

Just for the record, and this isn't directed at the OP especially, having no family nearby doesn't mean you are not able to make alternative arrangements. As far as an employer is concerned, there are emergency nannies available if push comes to shove, so that wouldn't necessarily get you out of having to make alternative arrangements in that situation.

However OP your boss does sound sympathetic so I don't think you're going to have a problem.

[Polygon]

I´m now a SAHM but when I was working, DH and I managed it with annual leave and with compensating by working longer other days. Neither of my children could have managed being left with a complete stranger when they were sick. Our neighbours did get emergency nannies from an agency - one until she went down with the kids´ tummy bug, then the next one until she went down with it - it´s a nightmare!
Having said that, my sister once came across the country on the train to provide childcare - not something that we could have done repeatedly! :o

[mycatlikestwiglets]

I agree with HemioneE and I'm surprised at some of the other responses you've had on this thread.

It sounds as though you need to have a proper discussion with your boss about how to deal with childcare issues when they arise. Perhaps you should be offering to take holiday rather than simply expecting to be given random time off - it's great that you have been able to do this so far but clearly your employer is concerned about the amount, which is understandable. My DS has just had chickenpox so DH and I had no choice but to take some time off to look after him. We managed through a combination of holiday and working from home. If you're proactive with your employer on your options for managing this type of issue they may be more understanding about your situation.

[HermioneE]

From your OP, I think you may be worrying too much here. I read that as your boss saying that unfortunately they cannot continue to be generous with days off when your child is ill, and as/when it happens again, he'll need to discuss with you whether you want to take as unpaid leave or out of your holiday allowance (the two options offered in my experience).

He's certainly phrased it badly as it seems to have come across to you as a bit of a threat, especially with the 'if it happens again...' when, as you say, it's bound to. But I think it may be his wording rather than the policy that's the problem.

Maybe you could ask for clarification on the policy, and explain that you know this will happen again so you want to know in advance what to do that suits both the company and you. That's what I'd do, and as a manager I'd respect someone wanting to help find a solution.

[solveproblem]

Ladymuck; They don't have to get cover for me. We are very quiet this time of year so it did not effect work much at all that I stayed home for one day. The work I missed I easily caught up with the following day.

I have also put in a lot of overtime this year as I have to travel a lot, which I don't get compensated for, but I would obviously not use this as an argument (I'm not going to argue with them at all!).

[Ladymuck]

I think that it is worth looking to explore with your manager what their most pressing concern is: is it loss of productivity, unfair treatment in comparison with other employees, the cost to them of having to get short term cover for you etc. Certainly if your children have been ill for 10 work days this year, that is unfortunate, and would be a lot ime, and I wouldn't expect that amount of illness to continue.

[SuperSaint]

If my children are sick I have to take annual leave to look after them. I can do some work from home but only if I know I am going to be doing this and take files etc home. If I did not plan it then I don't have anything to do at home so take annual leave. If I leave work early to collect a sick DC I have to make the time up later in the month.

It's annoying but I wouldn't expect them to give me a day off "for free". I think your work are being very generous to have allowed you 5 days off over the last year. I have no family nearby and am a single parent so I have no choice if my DCs are ill. Luckily (touch wood / fingers crossed) they are rarely ill. (I can't believe I've just tempted fate by writing that )

[sunnyday123]

I don't think 5 days is a lot at all all year! In my job people are off a week with a cold! We get 6 months sick full pay and I know people who insist they take their 10 days sick (before they'd go on sick monitoring). I know that wrong but the op is genuinely stuck and I'd be very unhappy using people from agencies for a few days a year.

I'd be inclined to mix it with you being sick. 2/3 days sick a year is nothing in most lines of work. If it were much more frequent its an issue but I'm shocked at your boss for 5 days in a year!

[MysteriousHamster]

I'm really surprised by this thread, I thought employers had to give you time off (unpaid) to look after small children.

I certainly couldn't get childcare for a sick child no matter how hard I tried.

I would just advise you to use holiday or go unpaid or ask to work from home. Let them know you understand it's unconvenient and make sure it doesn't cost them anything.

You can't do much about a sick child. I sympathise. Before my son had his adenoids off he was constantly ill with ear infections, nursery wouldn't take him and I don't have family nearby. Luckily work understood.

[solveproblem]

I might put a request in for flexible working, to be able to work from home on the days they are ill.

[AgentProvocateur]

Sanityclause, where I've worked it was a few hours to make other arrangements, not days or even one day. I think it says "reasonable time" so employers can interpret that how they like.

In the past, when my children were small, I have paid for an emergency sitter, begged favours from friends, swapped with other mums, and paid local teens. I think you'll have to find a back-up for child are, OP, because five days is a day every couple of months, and that's quite a lot.

Can you make up the time on weekends?

[Lougle]

" calypso2008 Tue 04-Dec-12 20:02:57

Also, you have only been in the job a year? I would be careful. "

No need to scaremonger The OP has completed more than a year's service, so is fully protected (as much as any other employee, at any rate) against unfair dismissal, etc.

[sunnyday123]

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants/your-rights