Article - 'The sadness of Sceptical Man' by Victoria Smith

[UtopiaPlanitia]

As usual, Smith writes an excellent examination of the behaviour of certain men when faced with women telling them they’re wrong about something that negatively affects women.

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-sadness-of-sceptical-man/

'As a topic, sex and gender causes particular problems for the man who views himself as a lofty, rational observer of other people’s madnesses. This is because in order to pass as occupying “the middle ground”, you still have to give a free pass to lots of insane things, as opposed to lots and lots of them. Instead of going full-on Long Chu — which would of course be too far!  — you have to ignore plenty of stuff which, deep down, you know to be total bollocks. This probably makes you quite cross, only not with yourself. It’s the people who keep pointing it out who are the problem.'

[Gagagardener]

Bump.

[UtopiaPlanitia]

I’m glad you found the article interesting @Gagagardener 👍

[InvisibleBuffy]

She is an excellent writer. Absolutely nails it

[IWilloBeACervix]

Another great article from Victoria. I think I find those trying to sit on the fence whilst sneering about how reasonable they are the most annoying. At least the TRAs are mad or actually want chaos.

[RoyalCorgi]

I think this is one of her best yet.

I've wondered about the reason why self-styled rationalists and sceptics like Ronson, Robin Ince, James O'Brien et al, hold such an utterly irrational position on the trans issue, and I've come to the boring conclusion that they don't like women very much. They're annoyed because feminists got their first.

If it's your job as a super rational, clever, sceptical man to point out when an ideology is irrational, then how galling must it be to find out that someone like Helen Joyce or Kathleen Stock has already done it? It would put them in the position of being followers rather than leaders.

That's not to mention the cowardice element, of course - of facing being cancelled if you adopt a rational position.

Much easier to make fun of silly women-type things like Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop and women who choose hypnobirthing than to risk criticising a daft ideology being promoted by a particularly aggressive and deranged group of men.

[ArabellaScott]

'They have found it easier to denigrate feminists, middle-aged women, LGB people and even former friends, dismissing them as bigots spreading moral panic. On reflection, I think it’s because their genre — their way of presenting the world to others — has always found actual whistleblowers a bit cringe, a bit too impassioned, a bit ridiculous. Isn’t it safer to mock — sorry, cast a curious, nuanced eye on — anyone who’s getting het up about anything? Then later, when the dust has settled and it’s clear which side is the most socially and professionally convenient one to be on, you can claim you’d have expressed your own views earlier, but the atmosphere was too toxic.'

Oof.

[SlipperyLizard]

She’s such a good writer, I wish I could write so clearly!

Ronson, Theroux, Bragg, Buxton have all shown how little regard they have for women. Their failure to call out nonsense when they see it can’t be stupidity, it must be wilful blindness.

[UtopiaPlanitia]

The behaviour of these men has made me realise that Germaine was right; we had no idea that some self-proclaimed, Liberal, 'feminist ally' men actually see women as beneath them. If they genuinely respected us and saw us as equals we wouldn’t be involved in this bonkers fight to define our reality, and the laws protecting us because of that reality, through this ridiculous manipulation of language.

[Reallybadidea]

I think Helen Joyce also has a point about some of the most vocal people having a trans-identified young person in their family and they need to be seen to be supporting them. I know it's not the case, but it sometimes seems that everyone I know has one in their family/friends at the moment, it is so widespread.

[illinivich]

They're annoyed because feminists got their first.

I think this is a part of it.

I think they were too far behind the curve. They were too ready to take the side of middle aged cross dressers, and they just didnt see the children caught up in it all. I suspect before long, all of these men had family friends with trans children, so counldnt be objective. Criticism of TRA was seen as criticism of their social groups.

[Ofcourseshecan]

@ArabellaScott

'They have found it easier to denigrate feminists, middle-aged women, LGB people and even former friends, dismissing them as bigots spreading moral panic. On reflection, I think it’s because their genre — their way of presenting the world to others — has always found actual whistleblowers a bit cringe, a bit too impassioned, a bit ridiculous. Isn’t it safer to mock — sorry, cast a curious, nuanced eye on — anyone who’s getting het up about anything? Then later, when the dust has settled and it’s clear which side is the most socially and professionally convenient one to be on, you can claim you’d have expressed your own views earlier, but the atmosphere was too toxic.'

Oof.

I hurried back here to quote that paragraph. As Arabella got there first, here’s another direct hit:

For those whose brand values — rationality! curiosity! scepticism! — are quite incompatible with any serious engagement with what has been happening, it has been necessary to portray it as a “culture war” between two equally extremist sides.

There are the people who think sex isn’t binary, male people should be welcome in female-only spaces and sports, it’s fine to experiment on the bodies of children, JK Rowling is a terrorist.
And then there are the people who think that sex is immutable, women are definable as a class of human beings and that biological sex is socially and politically salient.

Both sides have to be treated as though they are equally irrational, in order to make it possible for self-styled voices of reason to shake their heads and performatively muse on what drives perfectly ordinary people to adopt such ludicrously polarised positions.

Can’t they find some middle ground? Like, experiment on half the number of kids? Let uterus havers and bleeders call themselves adult human females every other Tuesday?

Nail hit on head.

[DadJoke]

@Reallybadidea

I think Helen Joyce also has a point about some of the most vocal people having a trans-identified young person in their family and they need to be seen to be supporting them. I know it's not the case, but it sometimes seems that everyone I know has one in their family/friends at the moment, it is so widespread.

Not "need to be seen to support" but actually do. People who have gay relatives and friends are much more likely to support gay rights, people who have disabled friends and relatives are much more likely to support rights for people with disabilties and people with transgender friends and relatives are more likely to support trans rights.

It's not complicated, nor is it a reason to recuse yourself from speaking about it.

[Ofcourseshecan]

@DadJoke

Not "need to be seen to support" but actually do. People who have gay relatives and friends are much more likely to support gay rights, people who have disabled friends and relatives are much more likely to support rights for people with disabilties and people with transgender friends and relatives are more likely to support trans rights.

It's not complicated, nor is it a reason to recuse yourself from speaking about it.

Because encouraging a troubled teenage girl to have her breasts amputated is soooo supportive.

[LoobiJee]

Victoria Smith is a fantastic writer. And her approach and use of language in this article, might, just might, make them squirm.

But really she’s giving them too much credit with this:

“On reflection, I think it’s because their genre — their way of presenting the world to others — has always found actual whistleblowers a bit cringe, a bit too impassioned, a bit ridiculous.”

The reason they’ve adopted this position: “pose as a clever person, looking down on the squabbling plebs, insisting they’re all as bad as each other”

is because they are:
intellectually lazy
self-absorbed
lying
cowards
who couldn’t care less about women and children
but who do care about their social status amongst their smug little clique

[Dumbledoreslemonsherbets]

I feel like printing this out and sending it to a lot of men I know like this. I think I will. 😁

[Dumbledoreslemonsherbets]

Needless to say another storming article by Victoria Smith. She's brilliant.

[WiltingAtTreadmills]

I run in circles with some of these types.
Often decrying masculinity for men in one breath while conflating women and "feminine" in another. Self-analysis is totally lacking.

[WiltingAtTreadmills]

Interestingly, Andrea Long Chu defines trans children as "full members of society who would like to change their sex".

Is that true? I thought they wanted to change gender. Not all want to change their sex, presumably because that requires believing a gender needs to be in a body of the "right" sex, which as we all know is transphobic.

[BackCats]

@Reallybadidea

I think Helen Joyce also has a point about some of the most vocal people having a trans-identified young person in their family and they need to be seen to be supporting them. I know it's not the case, but it sometimes seems that everyone I know has one in their family/friends at the moment, it is so widespread.

On the other hand, there are many people who have trans identified loved ones who are devastated and disturbed by it. They don’t sport T shirts with ridiculous, brainless slogans promoting the ideology - to normalise and spread it even more comprehensively, or support harmful bills and practices. They tread on eggshells wanting to stop that person whilst avoiding being completely cut off.

All these people who pretend it’s not a load of nonsense to spare the feelings of their loved ones are shameful cowards at best.

[Ofcourseshecan]

@WiltingAtTreadmills

Interestingly, Andrea Long Chu defines trans children as "full members of society who would like to change their sex".

Is that true? I thought they wanted to change gender. Not all want to change their sex, presumably because that requires believing a gender needs to be in a body of the "right" sex, which as we all know is transphobic.

Interestingly, Andrea Long Chu defines trans children as "full members of society who would like to change their sex".

Ugh, talking as if children are adults, with an adult’s maturity and experience, so reminds me of the Paedophile Information Exchange of the 1970s. Pretending children had the same understanding of what was good or bad for them — and of course encouraging them to agree with those nice men who want them to ‘have fun’. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

[teawamutu]

@ArabellaScott

'They have found it easier to denigrate feminists, middle-aged women, LGB people and even former friends, dismissing them as bigots spreading moral panic. On reflection, I think it’s because their genre — their way of presenting the world to others — has always found actual whistleblowers a bit cringe, a bit too impassioned, a bit ridiculous. Isn’t it safer to mock — sorry, cast a curious, nuanced eye on — anyone who’s getting het up about anything? Then later, when the dust has settled and it’s clear which side is the most socially and professionally convenient one to be on, you can claim you’d have expressed your own views earlier, but the atmosphere was too toxic.'

Oof.

DAMN. She's so sharp.

[Reallybadidea]

@BackCats

On the other hand, there are many people who have trans identified loved ones who are devastated and disturbed by it. They don’t sport T shirts with ridiculous, brainless slogans promoting the ideology - to normalise and spread it even more comprehensively, or support harmful bills and practices. They tread on eggshells wanting to stop that person whilst avoiding being completely cut off.

All these people who pretend it’s not a load of nonsense to spare the feelings of their loved ones are shameful cowards at best.

Totally agree, I'm one of those people, treading a fine line in not alienating their young person while also not affirming them. But I was already very well-informed about the GC pov (thanks to MN). I can see how, if you're generally socially liberal, that it's easy to cheerlead your trans young person thinking that it's akin to supporting a gay person coming out.

[UltraLiteLife]

@DadJoke

Not "need to be seen to support" but actually do. People who have gay relatives and friends are much more likely to support gay rights, people who have disabled friends and relatives are much more likely to support rights for people with disabilties and people with transgender friends and relatives are more likely to support trans rights.

It's not complicated, nor is it a reason to recuse yourself from speaking about it.

All the time you've spent here scolding posters and you haven't picked up on the reality that a substantial proportion do have friends and relatives whose rights we support across all of the protected characteristics and beyond.

Even bad faith is a fixed feature, it's still disappointing.

Always remember, if there's a time when you need to consider a golden bridge,—like so many others who discover they need to leave Kindland—you've already been exposed to the reality that you need.

[WiltingAtTreadmills]

Some posters clearly care about "being seen to support" trans people on here and nothing else.

If they actually wanted to support by persuading GC people of the "right" position to take, they'd engage. Answer questions. Explain their actual position when asked.

Instead, you see them answering different questions from what was actually asked, in order to chuck out slogans we've already said don't make sense to us. That is a fine example of trying to "appear" to support rather than actually communicating their position in a way that actually engages with the conversation.

I wouldn't want anyone to support me by merely throwing out words they can't define then running away. It would weaken my position if that was the visibility of "support".

[Lovelyview]

Great article. I wonder if it will have any effect on its targets.