Radio. Scotland Kaye Adams

[334bu]

Discussion now.

[Passmeamenuatthetottenham]

Oh my god, have just seen this on Twitter - whaaaaaat?!

So this is a male talking about women's concerns about self-id leading to higher rates of assault/murder and he says:

'It wouldn't matter actually if there was a slight spike in those statistics because this isn't about that kind of issue, this is about human rights'.

I mean, what the actual fuck? He literally came right out and said it - it doesn't matter if some people get murdered, as long as males get to do exactly what they want?

Is there even any semblance of a mask left now?!

[Waitwhat23]

@MurrayBlackburnMackenzie you are doing excellent work - thank you

[Rhannion]

Lisa, you were excellent, thank you

[littlbrowndog]

Thanks Lisa. You were awesome ❤️❤️

[MurrayBlackburnMackenzie]

Thank you for the kind comments in this thread. We were pleased to be asked to participate in this discussion.

There is a transcript of the discussion here although the audio recording should remain on the BBC website for a few weeks yet.

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/BBC-Radio-Scotland-GRA-reform-debate-200921.pdf

[andyoldlabour]

Sophie Grace Chappell on JKR. Can't actually point out what JKR said that was transphobic (because JKR didn't say anything transphobic), then gets upset when questioned about it.

"Because I care what J K Rowling says, I was in pain when I read her letter. At least one friend of my own who really should have known better wanted to interrogate me non-stop about what she’d said, wouldn’t back off even when asked to, and in the end, just got downright insulting and openly transphobic."

www.philosophersmag.com/interviews/219-sophie-grace-chappell-talks-sex-and-gender

[Artichokeleaves]

When you've reached the point of 'the worst thing about your sexual assault is how it makes me feel when you talk about it' then really, that's the end of any reasonable discussion being possible.

There have been Muslim women in my area fighting with the local authority as all the park toilets were made 'gender neutral' and this now means that there are so many more toilets available for people born male, with none at all for women who cannot use mixed sex spaces. After much discussion one has been retained as single sex which involves a very long walk to an out of the way place. Marginalised women being even more marginalised and disadvantaged and discouraged out of public spaces, and who benefits?

Male people. Apparently with a complete lack of any basic respect or empathy for diversity, inclusion or anything else connected to females. Females who will not surrender their protected characteristics and needs to prioritise the wishes and needs of male people will be punished.

Which makes it male supremacism. Massive inequality.

Which the ruddy local authority is colluding in.

[Jaysmith71]

The 'Small Spike' is at around 1hr 27m:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zt0g

....and it sounds like someone's been reading McKinnon's thesis.

The sexual orientation parallel does not work on so many levels. Gay men are not excluded from male-only spaces, and do not pose any greater threat to other men than straight men. Violence based on homophobia was entirely the other way.

We then have the contradictory assertion that just as gay men have always been in men's spaces ("...but you just said," etc) so there have always been transwomen in the Ladies loos, you just never noticed them because some are indistinguishable.

Cheap debating society sophistry intended to confuse rather than convince.

[MiladyBerserko]

Yes Charlie, there are quite a few Muslim women at my gym, where the changing room is large, open plan with benches, with one tiny cubicle.

Pretty sure they, like me, would to longer be able to use the changing room if it became mixed sex. Why are women to be excluded in this way, however much in the 'minority' they are? They tell us that 'Diversity and Inclusion' is important but the inclusion of some demographic groups is more important and at the cost of the exclusion of others. I have been accused of using my previous sexual assault to discriminate against transwomen. They have no fucking shame. At all.

[CharlieParley]

@MiladyBerserko

And is that not a bit, er, racist?

Without a doubt. I'm still trying to understand how progressive lefties manage to be so casually racist. And when you point it out, the response is that you're just using these women to justify being exclusionary (with a strong side order of "you're making them up").

No FFS, they are my fellow parents at school, they are living in my town, I mean, yes, this is Scotland but they are here! They are here, right next to me and I'd like them to matter, too.

[littlbrowndog]

Great post Charley

Don’t matter how small we are but still must be counted.

[MiladyBerserko]

And is that not a bit, er, racist?

[MiladyBerserko]

Bloody hell, another disappointment. I always rather admired Kaye Adams.

Why is ok for people to give away the rights and privacy of women because they have friends or colleagues who are transwomen? Why do they get the advantage over women?

[CharlieParley]

@littlbrowndog

Yep there’s Kaye with her casual dismissal of women of religion and colour

Just a tiny minority in Scotland

Cheers Kaye

But if they are a tiny minority, so are male transgender people.

I mean we know that we have more of these women - about 2.7% of the population was Asian, Asian Scottish or Asian British at the last census in 2011 (That was 141,000). 9000 were Arab, 36,000 African, Caribbean or Black and another 25,000 mixed-ethnicity.

So a sizeable number of that 210,000 or so will be women from culturally conservative backgrounds. Then there are Orthodox Jewish women and women from Christian denominations that are unable to use mixed-sex provisions of this kind.

It'll take some time, I'm sure, for these numbers to register, since we're so used to Scottish people leaving (we only turned into a net-immigration country in the mid-90s) rather than other people coming here and living here, but their numbers doubled from 2001 to 2011. The official projection is that the ethnicity ones have doubled since then and will continue to grow.

So, yes, we are talking about a small, but not negligible number of women affected. Enough at least to confidently say that they will outnumber male transgender people in Scotland.

[littlbrowndog]

Yep there’s Kaye with her casual dismissal of women of religion and colour

Just a tiny minority in Scotland

Cheers Kaye

[Clymene]

Is Sophie Grace Chappell of the OU? Because if I were a woman paying for a course, I really really wouldn't want my fees paying for someone who a) thinks women being murdered is acceptable collateral for advancing men's rights and b) thinks this opinion is so uncontroversial that it's worthy of airing (with a snigger) on a National radio programme.

This person needs to be investigated

[Artichokeleaves]

and yes, the casual racism and religious intolerance is as revolting as the ageism, the ableism and the misogyny.

In fact in terms of inclusiveness.............. #massivefail

[Artichokeleaves]

.... in numbers, those women will easily outnumber the even tinier number of male born people that will benefit.

Do numbers matter or not? Does inclusion matter or not?

Or is this just about male people mattering and female people don't?

[littlbrowndog]

That was crap of Kaye just ignoring women of colour and faith. Just a tiny minority.

So write them off in favour off men Kaye

[NewMutiny]

@littlbrowndog

Sophie grace has 4 daughters.

Does Sophie grace not care about them ?

Jesus.

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

LittleBrown and if those women are of Asian descent they more likely to have diabetes and coronary heart disease than white women. So it is important that they exercise.

The things that stop Muslim women from exercising are well understood. And ignored.

[littlbrowndog]

Sophie grace has 4 daughters.

Does Sophie grace not care about them ?

[littlbrowndog]

And Kaye said this. Them pesky women of religion

@kayeadams @BBCRadioScot did you really just dismiss @mbmpolicy example of women withdrawing from women only swimming as a "tiny minority" & therefore it doesn't matter if women no longer have these opportunities

[CharlieParley]

It doesn't matter if there is a slight spike in murders as it is not about that, this is a human rights issue.

The right to life is one of the few, absolute human rights we have. And I quote:

Article 2 of the Human Rights Act protects your right to life.

This means that nobody, including the Government, can try to end your life. It also means the Government should take appropriate measures to safeguard life by making laws to protect you and, in some circumstances, by taking steps to protect you if your life is at risk.

Public authorities should also consider your right to life when making decisions that might put you in danger or that affect your life expectancy.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-2-right-life

The proud ignorance of these people never fails to astonish me. I just cannot understand how someone ostensibly immersed in human rights activism is so lacking in the most basic knowledge about human rights.

[Artichokeleaves]

I presume the answer will be along the lines of one women often hear. Which is if men want to assault and rape they will so why bother with any precautions?

This is all about rubbishing any experience or feelings of women to subordinate their interests to male interests. There is no empathy, no care, no respect, no interest in inclusion or diversity or kindness, or any of the other nice words if we're talking about females.

And that tells you all you need to know about it really.

By all means, create accessible provisions for trans people. But alongside female only spaces for female people who need them.