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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR's essay wins Russell prize

116 replies

TheChampagneGalop · 21/12/2020 15:21

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55350905
"JK Rowling is almost certainly the greatest writer of English children's fiction of her generation, and a remarkable humanitarian. It turns out she writes exhilaratingly powerful prose too.

In a blog about the transgender debate, she offended many people. Offence is the price of free speech. Those offended felt she was questioning their identity and even attacking their human rights, which they argue is a form of discrimination or hate speech.

I take absolutely no view whatsoever on the issues that she raises.

I do take an issue on abuse and trolling, and Rowling has achieved the inglorious honour of topping many a league table for those. The deluge of hatred that she faced before writing this blog made it brave, and it was nothing compared to what came after. Talking about bravery, so too, by the way, was Suzanne Moore's engrossing, long, personal essay for Unherd on why she left the Guardian.

We should all applaud bravery in writers - even those with whom we disagree. And Rowling's essay contained moments of both real beauty and piercing honesty, as when she revealed that she is a survivor of domestic abuse and sexual assault.

What the judges - that is, the voices in my head - most admired about the writing was the plain English. It is an interesting fact about rhetoric that if you want people to understand something, plain, mono-syllabic words are usually your best bet: "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country".

Or think of the final line from Enoch Powell's most notorious speech: "All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal."

I'm not endorsing the argument; but the rhetorical power of that line comes from the fact that there are 16 words, the first 15 of which have one syllable, and the last of which has three.

Compare it with this line in Rowling's essay: "So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe."

The rhetorical power from those two sentences derives partly from the plainness of the English. Only "women" (twice) and "natal" contain more than one syllable.

If you're ever editing copy that seems verbose, go through it and think about cutting syllables while conveying the same meaning. Plain English has power. JK Rowling gets that.
In his essay for Rolling Stone, Wade Davis captures what he believes is the end of American pre-eminence"

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nauticant · 22/12/2020 08:43

What they don't understand is that mischaracterising JKR as all kinds of evil works fine in the TRA echochamber and its penumbra but as soon as they take their war outside, people will ask "but what are the terrible things she's said?" They will not be convinced with "everyone on twitter says she's evil". People in general are more fair-minded than that.

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Typesofcatalogue · 22/12/2020 09:00

JKR has consistently and openly supported Maya Forstater, whose approach was found at a tribunal to be incompatible with the human dignity and fundamental rights of others.

JKR managed to say very little whilst saying a lot in that essay. This might not end well for either of them. The appeal will bring more sunlight one way or the other.

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OldCrone · 22/12/2020 09:09

I don't think quoting Enoch Powell is going to help our case.

I was a bit Shock when I saw that quote. But I think he's been quite clever there including quotes from both Powell and Kennedy. Is he really comparing JKR to either of them? If so, which one? Or is it just about the power of the rhetoric whatever the message?

And if you want an example of real hate speech, read the whole 'Rivers of blood' speech. Why aren't they cancelling Amol Rajan as a racist for quoting from it?

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CaveMum · 22/12/2020 09:21

@LizzieSiddal

I’ve always rated Amol and it puzzles me that he’s “only” the BBC’s Media Expert. His interview skills are fantastic, he’s able drill right down to the important points.

So pleased JK’s essay has had more publicity.

I’ve always thought he was vastly overqualified for the role - he was editor of The Independent!
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ArabellaScott · 22/12/2020 09:26

@donquixotedelamancha

A shame he had to repeatedly denounce JK's views. I doubt it will help, anyway, the mob looks very cross.

It's not for the mob. It's for his bosses. He didn't denounce her views, he declined to state an opinion on them- very different.

He can't endorse her views but he publicly held up her article as great writing and described her as brave. He said the same about Suzanne Moore immediately afterwards.

It's absolutely clear what he thinks but by doing it in a long established 'award', making it about the writing and emphasising his neutrality he makes it hard to punish him.

I think he's judged this very carefully.

Fair points.

I was thinking that perhaps one reason men don't get the same rape/death threats is often that they are most often questioning the threats themselves, as much as the arguments.

It's quite hard to respond to 'death threats are unacceptable discourse' with 'die you scum' unless you want to look like a right twonk. Some sections of Twitter have made twonkery a lifetime's pursuit, of course, but most of them see the problem and at least attempt a more conciliatory response.

Agree entirely that all the Twitter uproar is great sunlight. Smile
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WinterIsGone · 22/12/2020 09:30

But I think he's been quite clever there
Totally agree! I assume he wants to keep his job. The bbc will get complaints, and the new DG has recently said that its employees must not be political. Amol can then say, well I obviously don't agree with EP, therefore this is evidence I'm judging purely on the quality of the prose.

Yet if you read between the lines, the part about self identifying as a judge, Suzanne Moore, etc makes it a powerful piece of writing in its own right.

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HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 22/12/2020 09:40

@nauticant

What they don't understand is that mischaracterising JKR as all kinds of evil works fine in the TRA echochamber and its penumbra but as soon as they take their war outside, people will ask "but what are the terrible things she's said?" They will not be convinced with "everyone on twitter says she's evil". People in general are more fair-minded than that.

Her blog certainly seems to have sent posters to FWR - the Twitter twonkery (Grin Arabella) helps to amplify her message, which as you point out seems perfectly reasonable in comparison to the hysteria. So many men with such little self-awareness in Amol's mentions.
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ArabellaScott · 22/12/2020 09:45

Tis the season for testerical twonkery.

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donquixotedelamancha · 22/12/2020 09:46

I was thinking that perhaps one reason men don't get the same rape/death threats is often that they are most often questioning the threats themselves, as much as the arguments.

I think the main reason is, sadly, just because they are men. The threats would have less effect because they are less credible.

Some of the (not terribly famous) women who've had the most sustained abuse have been the ones who are clearly shaken by it and the ones who publicise it.

I suspect the little toads (and here I just mean those who send abuse) enjoy hearing of there work for it's own sake- not just as a tool to silence women.

I think Glinner is the only man who has really been abused to a similar extent. In part I think that's because of the way it's affected him.

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donquixotedelamancha · 22/12/2020 09:53

It's quite hard to respond to 'death threats are unacceptable discourse' with 'die you scum' unless you want to look like a right twonk.

You or I would think so but hat's not stopped them before. I think there are two things going on:

  1. The climate of fear may be embarrassing but it's still keeping discussion down in the areas that are important to them (experts in key public services).


  1. Having trained and mobilised the mob it's very hard to direct nuance. If you or I become convinced we are wrong we change our mind. We are not the recruitment targets of the Genderists.


They have never wanted or needed the majority of the public to agree. They want 0.1% to support them completely and be irrationally angry about it. This gives them an army feminists will never have.
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merrymouse · 22/12/2020 10:01

I was thinking that perhaps one reason men don't get the same rape/death threats is often that they are most often questioning the threats themselves, as much as the arguments.

Maybe, but I think its simpler than that. They just don't get the same thrill from tweeting rape/death threats at men.

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littlbrowndog · 22/12/2020 10:04

Yeah merry

They get off on it

Imagine being able to say all these things to women. And get applauded for it.

Power

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TheChampagneGalop · 22/12/2020 10:08

It's pretty obvious that's the motivation for all the bearded twitter bros.

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VulvaPerson · 22/12/2020 10:10

I remember reading a thread on a different site completely unconnected with anything to do with feminism where the topic of gender critical was brought up and most of the people there who were now questioning TRA rhetoric were turned by the reaction to JKR's essay

A lot of people I now 'turned' at this point too. Orignially they listened to all the 'wah dont read it, its evil and awful and bigoted nonsense, do not sully your eyeballs!' stuff and just assumed it was indeed awful if so many were so upset about it. Over time, they got curious (seemingly main reason for this is women they KNOW have spent their lives supporting LGBT people were saying..she said nothing wronr and such, which didn't make sense to them, that such women would suddenly be defending a bigot). They then read it. And were very Hmm as they could not see even a slight bit of 'hate' even though its full of the stuff apparently. Said her views matched theirs almost perfectly. Those who spoke publically abut their confusion, I nudged a little to explore the topic further as it had probably all changed a LOT from what they thin it is (ie. transsexual people, not female penises and such) and as usual, 'educating themselves' resulted in them seeing the issues and now being very against the MRA types. Own goals all round. These people would probably have stayed heads in the sand a little longer, if they were not so disgusted by an essay they had not read, because TRAs were whipping up storms everywhere about it.

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VulvaPerson · 22/12/2020 10:13

@ArabellaScott

Tis the season for testerical twonkery.

Grin
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nauticant · 22/12/2020 10:14

They want 0.1% to support them completely and be irrationally angry about it

That's been very effective when applied according to the Dentons guidance. Things get changed behind the scenes or out of public awareness with those involved knowing they're one mis-step from triggering an angry mob. Once this is happening in front of the public, then the public see that many of the things being said, at best, don't make sense or cause concern, and some of the people pushing them are ... well, that's where I get deleted.

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donquixotedelamancha · 22/12/2020 10:37

That's been very effective when applied according to the Dentons guidance.

I agree, they would much rather operate with the public having no clue but there is a long way left to go before we reverse the tide.

I want my bloody school back- but for that we need the experts and policy makers. We can win comprehensively with the public but if they still control the establishment Left then they will keep making progress.

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donquixotedelamancha · 22/12/2020 10:43

Once this is happening in front of the public, then the public see that many of the things being said, at best, don't make sense or cause concern

You are right but it will take a generation. I thought when Trump and Johnson irrefutably failed everyone would fall over themselves to be the first to say 'I knew they weren't really wearing clothes all along'.

Instead the hard core just dig in. Trump, his followers and his ideas still exercise huge influence over regional and federal government in the US.

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TheMarzipanDildo · 22/12/2020 11:59

Oh I always liked Amol. He’s much nicer to guests on the Jeremy vine show than Jeremy is.

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ArabellaScott · 22/12/2020 15:22

@TheMarzipanDildo

Oh I always liked Amol. He’s much nicer to guests on the Jeremy vine show than Jeremy is.

Loving that username. I feel a festive fucking Tucker binge coming on.
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AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/12/2020 17:01

I have spent a certain amount of time trying to work out how the words "So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe." are hateful or transphobic. Nobody I have offered this to without giving a source for it has been able to see any hatefulness or transphobia either. Funny, that.

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MoltenLasagne · 22/12/2020 17:13

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

I have spent a certain amount of time trying to work out how the words "So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe." are hateful or transphobic. Nobody I have offered this to without giving a source for it has been able to see any hatefulness or transphobia either. Funny, that.

It's differentiating between women and transwomen. That's not acceptable. Nor is it acceptable to say natal women, when transwomen were born women but just had a different genital configuration. See also, claims to female and, amusingly, latest claims to being cis-women.
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AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/12/2020 17:20

I am not sure why people would want so much to be part of a class of person they say does not exist. That vanishes in a puff of logic if you look at it for too long.

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Delphinium20 · 22/12/2020 17:26

Nor is it acceptable to say natal women, when transwomen were born women but just had a different genital configuration.

No baby is born a woman. I've pushed two out of my vagina and can confidently say they were not adults.

Babies are born female (girl) or male (boy).

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lionheart · 22/12/2020 20:37

The twitter swamp is seething.

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