Suzanne Moore left the Guardian

[DialSquare]

I've just seen this on Twitter. That'll be even more lost readers then. Not that I'm one of their readers.

[zanahoria]

it's exactly like something Owen is not old enough to remember

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Can’t watch the OJ video. I’m a big fan of watching/reading stuff I think I’m going to disagree with so I don’t get stuck in a bubble, but he’s just so fucking irritating I can’t do it to myself

Exactly the same here!

[RoyalCorgi]

But ultimately it was ‘blokes’ banter with OJ looking amused and indulgent while Piers proverbially waved his cock around.

Exactly. It's all a fucking joke to them. For us, it's deadly serious.

And of course OJ wouldn't interview JKR. Why not? For a start, he's not interested in talking to women. This is a men's issue for men to talk about. OJ, like his chum Jolyon Maugham, has absolutely no interesting in hearing what women have to say.

Secondly, OJ has probably dimly registered that Rowling would wipe the floor with him because she has more intelligence in her little finger than he does in his entire stupid fat head.

[Blackberrycream]

There was an article about this in this week’s Sunday Times written by the Oxford History Professor that Suzanne Moore wrote about. She was no platformed due to her disagreement with legal changes to the definition of a woman. She writes ‘ being robbed of the right to speak made me acutely aware of how precious a freedom it is. Women who speak out have long attracted disapproval and worse- think of the scolds bride’.
Apparently a letter of protest at transphobic content was sent to the editor signed by 338 of her colleagues. It’s astounding in a so called broadsheet and indicative of a lack of intellectual rigour. Suzanne Moore has said ‘ we have the right to speak and organise without being told that speech itself is dangerous ‘.
I have read the Sunday Times for a while. I enjoy reading several different viewpoints, often on the same page. The Guardian has not been a serious paper for a long time and they just lost one of their best writers.

[ChattyLion]

A feminist content media production company would be amazing!

[SophocIestheFox]

@FirstClassFlightHome

Can her and Jenni Murray set up some sort of media outlet?

Or resurrect Spare Rib? God knows we need it more than ever. It would be fab to have our own paper.

That would be amazing!

Can’t watch the OJ video. I’m a big fan of watching/reading stuff I think I’m going to disagree with so I don’t get stuck in a bubble, but he’s just so fucking irritating I can’t do it to myself 🤣

[FirstClassFlightHome]

Can her and Jenni Murray set up some sort of media outlet?

Or resurrect Spare Rib? God knows we need it more than ever. It would be fab to have our own paper.

[WhatsthetruthRuth]

Oh that was quite a good watch. But ultimately it was ‘blokes’ banter with OJ looking amused and indulgent while Piers proverbially waved his cock around. I can’t imagine the same jokey dismay being shown by OJ to the likes of, say, JK Rowling? Perhaps he should interview her?!

As for the ‘it’s exactly like the gay rights battles of the 80s’ line taken by OJ - Piers did well to say that that never encroached on anyone else’s rights but I wish he had said that the ‘harm’ people referred to with regard to gay people and children is not a parallel argument to the ‘harm’ to children in the debate about trans rights. People aren’t talking about transgender people causing harm TO children - they are talking about the potential harms that may be inflicted on children via untested drugs and cross-sex hormones at 17 (they want it younger though) That and the appalling lack of access to good mental health support to really explore the roots of their deep unhappiness (but I realise that isn’t even allowed to be discussed and is seen as ‘harmful’ because it’s not 100% affirmation)

But we all know it’s a complex issue but it was refreshing to see some of the counter arguments being given a good airing and am glad OJ did it. Will certainly drive more people to his channel than the Chelsea Manning interview which I started to watch but got really bored half way through.

[Rubidium]

Funny you should mention Suzanne Moore, Owen Jones and YouTube...

Here's Owen Jones today, on YouTube, talking about Suzanne Moore's departure from The Guardian (and much more about trans issues), with Piers Morgan:

It's long, and frequently maddening, but worth a watch, and it highlights the paucity of Jones's arguments: "It's just like the arguments against gay people in the 80s" (yawn).

[ChattyLion]

And obviously, it doesn’t take just one camera operator to make a tv programme as anyone who watches the programme credits will know..

[ChattyLion]

Thank you everyone for explaining, so it looks like Owen Jones is trying to set up a documentary and weekly politics show production company, with some kind of team working with him and crowdfunded to get it going? (or is he running it on a user subscription model with a contract and guarantee to give subscribers xyz for their subscription?)

It does look very ambitious financially unless he’s going to be making the programmes on his iPhone. Maybe he’s got a big financial backer somewhere. Or is that kind of thing what the bad old ‘mainstream‘ media do?

I noticed that content only broadcast online (not via a tv broadcaster) doesn't have any union rates quoted for online branded content. I take that ‘0’ figure from the daily rate cards for camera operators at BECTU who seem to be the relevant trade union.

members.bectu.org.uk/advice-resources/library/2568
Alternatively if Owen Jones is making content for tv broadcasters, the going daily cost just for a single camera operator is upwards of £400.

members.bectu.org.uk/filegrab/pp-f-tv-factual-rate-card-2020.pdf?ref=2765

[PotholeParadies]

Ooh, 1665 now!

It depends what tier of support these people are picking. £3 a month is the cheapest, and £100 is the most expensive. But people are subscribing because he's promising something more than him talking into his smartphone which in turn increases his overheads.

In his words: But I need to hire an incredible team - videographers, editors and producers - all on a union wage - to make this happen. Without your support, we can't do this.

If almost everyone has picked the cheapest tier, then he might have to pull an Extinction Rebellion on the mortgage.

[carlaCox]

I have wondered if part of the rationale for OJ is that YouTube really is an evil company (potentially one of the worst) and it's going to be hard to push the idea of being super ethical and anti-capitalist in your videos while making money from YouTube views. Eventually you have to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

If people want to pay to subscribe to his videos then whatever, more fool them I guess.

[highame]

Will that pay the mortgage Potholes?

[PotholeParadies]

@highame

I wonder if he'll have millions of subscribers 😂

Currently he's at 1,664.

[highame]

I wonder if he'll have millions of subscribers 😂

[DidoLamenting]

@ChattyLion

I’m confused why there is a crowdfunder in Owen Jones’ name? What’s he raising money for?

It isn't a crowdfunder. It's a patreon account. Loads of YouTubers/ bloggers do the same. For example Graham Linehan and Arielle Scarcella limit access for non- subscribers to their sites. Blaire White has a patreon account too which is much expensive than OJ's.

The difference seems to be that unlike these 3 (and the half dozen or so YouTubers I subscribe to who have a patreon accounts) who all have free content OJ's will only be paid for content.

[PotholeParadies]

Rumour has it that the Guardian isn't renewing his contract. If that were the case, he might reasonably conclude that his employment prospects elsewhere are poor.

He says he's setting up an alternate media source because "the mainstream media have failed us". Anyway, he's setting up his own internet channel of subscription-only videos. You only get to watch his programme if you subscribe via patreon, and there are six tiers of support, from £3 a month to £100.

[ChattyLion]

Sorry I did google this before posting and couldn’t find anything about it. I don’t want to divert from Suzanne Moore’s thread... she is an actual proper journalist I have absolute respect for and I hope to see her come back with a vengeance via another media outlet ASAP... but I can’t see a single reason why Owen Jones should be trying to raise money off the general public to make current affairs films.?

He works for a media company already, he’s a household national media name already. That’s a massive head start above everyone else trying to make current affairs programmes. If nobody wants to commission him directly to present or author his films and he still wants to make his own entire programmes then he can set up his own TV production company. Then the company can pitch to broadcasters to fund them to make the programmes. And if they don’t like his ideas they won’t get made.
And even if he doesn’t want to actually be a journalist and professional programme maker then he can still make films on whatever topic he wants to, off his own bat on YouTube.
I just don’t get what seeking money off the public has to do with making current affairs programmes. I mean, is it normal now for salaried famous people to seek crowd funding for their start ups in the professional field that they already work in, or have I totally missed something about what he’s trying to do here?

[PotholeParadies]

@ChattyLion

I’m confused why there is a crowdfunder in Owen Jones’ name? What’s he raising money for?

He's raising money to make current affairs videos.

[ChattyLion]

I’m confused why there is a crowdfunder in Owen Jones’ name? What’s he raising money for?

[aliasundercover]

About an hour ago I left a comment under Hadely Freemen's weekend column:

Hadley, please keep doing what you're doing. Now that Suzanne Moore has left you're one of the few writers who keep The Guardian worth reading. Stay strong.

It has yet to appear. It seems supporting Suzanne Moore is not the done thing at TRAudian