“Green Party : handful of people” in the party are undermining trans people’s “right to exist”

[letterem]

From Amelia Womack : She says tackling “all forms of discrimination and bigotry” within and outside the Green Party is “essential”.
In particular, she argues that “a handful of people” in the party are undermining trans people’s “right to exist”. This is in reference to a long term struggle in the party, where a small, unrepresentative group of members have opposed the Greens’ policies that support trans rights.

On you go , handful of people .

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

Emma Cuthbertson, a former Women's Officer ... has told of how she feared almost daily for her safety and was the victim of attacks ... due to her being transgender.

Really, attacks? Or people voicing their disapproval of EC taking a Women's Officer job?

[Aesopfable]

@wrongsideofhistorymyarse

The whole fearing for their lives thing is part of the fetish. They see themselves as tiny vulnerable women, unlike people with eyes.

Indeed, you just need to look at a TW serial derailing on here to see their fantasy image of ‘women’, divorced from the reality of what it is actually like to be a woman, is central to their ideology.

[ListeningQuietly]

Every mother
who wants their daughter
to have the chance to excel in sport, business or the arts
needs to fight the
misogynist infiltration of women's spaces
by 1970s men and their enablers

[AnnieBarbour]

I’m interested I hearing from anyone in the Scottish Green Party who is experiencing harassment, cancelling or other abuse for questioning how the ‘trans women are women’ mantra impacts on all women lists and women Co- Convenor places.

[wellbehavedwomen]

@morningtoncrescent62

I just read the article posted by ItsAllGoingToBeFine about the former SNP women's officer, now in the Scottish Greens, and their claims about the SNP failing to take seriously their complaints of transphobia.

One of the many problems with the TRA tactics is that it's no longer possible to name and address transphobia. The term has become meaningless. When anyone putting forward an argument for women's rights is accused of bigotry and undermining trans people's rights to exist, we can no longer identify real bigotry and denial of human rights. I've no idea whether the SNP complainant was the target of actual transphobic attack (whether verbal or physical), because the term as used by TRAs has become empty of meaning. These extremists are doing trans people no favours.

I've thought that.

There were some really horrible comments under that swimsuit model linked the other day. Bunch of men asserting how non-gay they were, yes sirree, by being very unpleasant about a really gorgeous trans woman. Same with Damian Burr's vitriol about trans people, using a certain slur and mocking a suicide attempt. That's genuine transphobia. Can well imagine how that would go down if anyone located anything similar from eg Suzanne Moore, no matter how long ago it was.

Saying that humans can't change sex, that sex and gender are different things, and that women need single sex spaces, sport, and representation based on biology isn't transphobic. It's women as a sex class, advocating for ourselves. And if there were no actual conflict, there'd be no rage, either, because it wouldn't matter what we said or did: our provision would remain intact. It's like those people who were sure gay marriage threatened their own - nobody else's marriage has any impact on theirs, so it was a total nonsense. This is about our provision ,when males are to be allowed access. We are affected, directly, and some women will be harmed by it - severely so. And we have a right to advocate for our own interests when male people seek to co-opt it, given male people's proven extreme abuse and attempted total domination of female people, through history. We do not have to accept that an unproven, and unprovable, thought in a male person's head matters more than biological fact. And that is the demand. All else flows from that demand.

If transphobia now is anyone saying anything that doesn't place all trans people (though let's face it, what they really mean is male trans people: trans women) front and centre in every possible context, at cost to that group's own best interests, then no wonder transphobia is seen everywhere you look. Because other people do actually also exist, with rights and lives and vulnerabilities of their own.

As for anyone denying anyone's existence... I don't deny that the Pope exists. I just don't believe he is the human being closest to God, and that he should determine how I live my life.

The distinction is seemingly lost on some people.

[joyjester]

@SheWhoMustNotBeHeard

I'm politically homeless :(

Snap😥

[Michelleoftheresistance]

I agree that "denying/undermining the right to exist" has got to be the biggest bollocky non-phrase of the bloody century. What does it even MEAN?

As far as I'm able to understand from reading as extensively as I can - since like you, I find explanations very thin on the ground - it's to do with the idea that identity can only exist if others consistently enact perceiving and treating you in a way compatible with your personal, inner sense of identity, and provide you with uninterrupted external validation of it. The identity only exists if externally validated and confirmed as if it was the truth, so interrupting that validation, or not co operating with that validation 'vanishes' that identity. It exists only with the uninterrupted support of other people. So to refuse validation 'denies the right of that chosen identity to exist'. If I'm wrong, please someone correct me, I've been asking for some time!

I could, at this point, wax lyrical and for some time about the unhealthiness there appears to be within this relying on external validation for happiness and sense of self as it is inevitably and unrealistically impossible to control others' perceptions, reactions, language, feelings and actions at all times. It goes against everything therapists normally support people to do. Also the desire to control others in this way shows concerning issues with expecting others - even total strangers on the street - to take a loco parentis type responsibility for your feelings, needs and wellbeing at all times instead of taking responsibility for yourself; issues with expecting care taking from others and standards of service provision from them with no reciprocation or social contract; and the issues inherent in not respecting that other people are autonomous beings, with different views, beliefs and choices who may not choose to put your needs and feelings above any other priority they have, or agree with your beliefs within their value system or other aspects of their life such as their faith, and may therefore say no to you. There is a fundamental disrespect for the equality of rights of others.

Bear in mind, the political lobby behind this want legal systems of punishment for those who do not provide this compelled service to them, and have already used these avenues.

The whole thing is disturbing.

[notyourhandmaid]

For a minority group whose 'existence' is so often threatened, they sure are loud.

[Socrates11]

This is in reference to a long term struggle in the party, where a small, unrepresentative group of members have opposed the Greens’ policies that support trans rights.

Aye, lot smaller group since they chucked people out for asking basic safeguarding questions. Jenny Jones and Rupert Read were shut down & re-educated, whilst Lucas was bullied out of meeting up with WPUK. So unrepresentative eyeroll (Come on Lucas do a Rowling you're too sensible not to see through the absolute bullshit)

Practically a lifelong Green voter but not a chance in hell I'd vote for them now whilst they're spouting this cult nonsense.

As Magdalene Bern's so memorably said, "I'd rather be rude than a bloody liar", correctly sexing someone cannot be a crime/discrimination & has no bearing on their ability to exist FFS.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

I agree that "denying/undermining the right to exist" has got to be the biggest bollocky non-phrase of the bloody century. What does it even MEAN? I have asked so, so many posters on this board, whose default position is screeching"transphobe" and not one has been able to answer (along with every other question put to them). Not.One.
And "literal violence" is also such a load of crap. When did anyone get physically hurt from debate?

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

I don't know if the left have managed to join the dots, though. There still seems to be this utterly simplistic idea that anyone questioning the current ideology is a 'baddie ' and therefore to be cast out. Happened with Brexit, happened with the election, with Trump too. Just more hand wringing that everyone else is so awful and this nameless mass of people are suddenly racist/stupid/evil. (A section of the left perhaps enjoys the martyrdom of always being in the valiant losing side, too. I say this as a leftie.)

Instead of accepting that humans are human with divergent ideas and opinions.

[SarahTancredi]

Just a thought but is there an idea that women are fragile, another stereotype without knowing what it means

Shows you how little they actually know about women doesnt it.

Our bodies take a right battering. Women are pretty hard-core.

Suffragettes were anything but meak mild and fragile...

[highame]

And still no one asks why this one group of people is apparently so much more fragile

Just a thought but is there an idea that women are fragile, another stereotype without knowing what it means?

[SarahTancredi]

If I were wanting to take down a middling political party that presented some kind of threat then something like the self ID/GRA debate would be precisely the mechanism I'd use. Send in a few recruits to agitate and infiltrate, take over every debate no matter the issue, encourage anyone who sees the whole thing as lunacy to leave or be kicked out. Et voila, a zombie party that no longer has the teeth, conviction or unity to achieve what it was ostensibly set up to do

Thing is that they have already seen where this leads. Lib dems and labor made themselves unelectable with this stuff and backed themselves into such a corner that that they ended up on radio and TV infront of hundreds of people saying that make raoists feelings were more important than anything else.

Why on earth would they pick up where they left off?

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

If I were wanting to take down a middling political party that presented some kind of threat then something like the self ID/GRA debate would be precisely the mechanism I'd use. Send in a few recruits to agitate and infiltrate, take over every debate no matter the issue, encourage anyone who sees the whole thing as lunacy to leave or be kicked out. Et voila, a zombie party that no longer has the teeth, conviction or unity to achieve what it was ostensibly set up to do.

[Kantastic]

No kidding. I'm still blinking on that tweet linked to this morning, about a TW whose friend put in a 23&me DNA request, and the TW was deeply distressed to receive back results of XY. The friend wanted to know couldn't 23&me do a trans inclusive test.... words fail.

My partner got that done and I have a distinct memory of the website dancing around with trans inclusive language on that section! So it's not like the results were like "LOL UR A MAN HAHA," anyway bloody Google own them. So they literally had a problem with the genetic test saying "XY" on it...

okay wow it must be exhausting to live in that person's head, I want to take a nap just thinking about it.

[TheSingingKettle49]

So if feel i was born in the wrong body, I should have been 6ft tall and gorgeous and I decide to identify as a supermodel, but none of the modelling agencies will represent me and no fashion houses will pay me to wear their clothes because actually I’m a bit chubby and average looking are they denying my right to exist?

[Apileofballyhoo]

@2Rebecca

It would be handy if they all went to the one party and that party became the party of identity politics and the oppression olympics and the other parties just got on with real issues

I was just thinking that very same thing.

[BatShite]

'Right to exist' nonsense yet again. So sick of hearing this when I have yet to see anyone claim that trans people don't exist, nor anything of the sort. But its made out to be something thats said all the time. Infact the only people I have ever heard banging on about transpeoples right to exist..are TRAs.

[DrDavidBanner]

@SarahTancredi

And still no one asks why this one group of people is apparently so much more fragile than the girls getting shot at trying to access eduction. More fragile than victims of abuse, trafficking, modern day slavery, more fragile than the children who have to walk miles just to get water, more fragile than those on the front line in the army who have seen horrific things.

So fragile women have to pretend they no longer exist to aplease them.

When will these people wake up and realise they have been had .

When I first started living with my now DH my nan told me. "Set your boundaries and stick to them because he will try to cross them, he's a good man but it's just what men do. They can't help themselves". Its always stuck with me, it seems quite a sexist generalisation but these dudes will keep proving her point.

[highame]

These are adults. I doubt it😁

But it is making me laugh

[Michelleoftheresistance]

I don't even know what to say to the 23 and me thing. Just, no, no they cannot, because what you are asking for does not exist within the bounds of human biology, on account of us being mammals.

I can honestly, only think the expectation is that you should be able to apply for the test, telling them what you would like the results to be. They then pretend to do the test and send you the results letter with your preferred chosen results inserted and celebrated.

These are adults.

[Tootletum]

Not that surprised given that every single article that talks about JKR's tweets never quotes any part of them, but just labels them as transphobic. Not even "perceived as" or "controversial" (cos saying women have rights is obviously terrible lies), but a statement of faxt that equates opinion with hate crime. It's all such utter bullshit. I don't even think trans rights is a big deal, they have rights, and most of them just want to be left alone and dissociated from Twitter nutters. But the lack of any freedom to even discuss complex issues on a public forum is shocking and bizarre.

[SarahTancredi]

And still no one asks why this one group of people is apparently so much more fragile than the girls getting shot at trying to access eduction. More fragile than victims of abuse, trafficking, modern day slavery, more fragile than the children who have to walk miles just to get water, more fragile than those on the front line in the army who have seen horrific things.

So fragile women have to pretend they no longer exist to aplease them.

When will these people wake up and realise they have been had .

[morningtoncrescent62]

I just read the article posted by ItsAllGoingToBeFine about the former SNP women's officer, now in the Scottish Greens, and their claims about the SNP failing to take seriously their complaints of transphobia.

One of the many problems with the TRA tactics is that it's no longer possible to name and address transphobia. The term has become meaningless. When anyone putting forward an argument for women's rights is accused of bigotry and undermining trans people's rights to exist, we can no longer identify real bigotry and denial of human rights. I've no idea whether the SNP complainant was the target of actual transphobic attack (whether verbal or physical), because the term as used by TRAs has become empty of meaning. These extremists are doing trans people no favours.