Canadian self ID changing rooms

[TheTamingOfTheresa]

Can anyone help me find an article outlining a story about a young girl’s mother unsuccessfully asking staff to challenge a naked man self- identifying as a woman from a changing room ? My friend insists this scenario could never have happened but I know I read it somewhere

[CatandtheFiddle]

Thanks everybody. I guess I'm probably a generation older than most of you - raised in the late 60s/70s by very liberal (then) parents who were deliberately open about nudity in the house (we lived in a fairly secluded place - nearest neighbour half a mile away) and questions were asked if we didn't want to swim naked, for example (not pervy ones - it was all a bit hippyish really).

So the 'prude' tag gets at me deep down from my childhood, and I still can't help thinking it's "giving in" to a very uptight view of the world.

Yet, like Lamahaha I find the idea of voyeuristic men in public spaces abhorrent. And I know that there's evidence in the legal system (so a friend who's a magistrate has told me) the so-called 'minor' sexual offences such as voyeurism, peeping, or flashing, indicate a pathology in the perpetrators that often leads to them committing much more serious, or violent sexual assaults.

So thank you everyone - lots to think about - as usual!

[Lamahaha]

Thanks everybody. I guess I'm probably a generation older than most of you - raised in the late 60s/70s by very liberal (then) parents who were deliberately open about nudity in the house (we lived in a fairly secluded place - nearest neighbour half a mile away) and questions were asked if we didn't want to swim naked, for example (not pervy ones - it was all a bit hippyish really)

Actually, I'm probably of your generation, born 1951, and I also had the most liberal parents imaginable, though nakedness was not a thing in our home. But I was a full blown hippy and was persuaded at the time that swimming naked with men was just fine. Lots of mixed sex skinny tipping and saunas. I backpacked a lot, travelled the world, met loads of people, had the time of my life.

It's only later I realised it wasn't just fine; and that these lovely open-minded naked male friends were just as pervy as ordinary blokes, just as horny, just as uncommitted and uncaring about women.

The final straw was when I got pregnant and I really wanted the baby (I was early 30s) but he persuaded me to have an abortion -- really, I didn't have any option if he didn't want the baby and help me out, as it was in America, I didn't have a visa, was a student etc.

So I came to my prudishness later in life and through trial and error. I was just sick of being told I was a prude if I didn't want to open my legs to one of these open-minded hippy world-traveller types just going with the flow. I realised I wasn't happy with it at all.

The abortion hit me so very hard. It was devastating. I realised I had to change as men weren't going to. That I had made it too easy for men to access my body. I made up my mind then that "never again".

Never again a man who didn't make it clear from the outset that he wanted me and was ready to commit. That if I happened to get pregnant he'd be there for me and the baby.

So it was a 180 degree change of attitude and I never regretted it. The only man I had since then was my husband and we had two children.

[Lamahaha]

I should add that I went along with all the skinny dipping and free sex stuff in spite of a sense of deep discomfort. I was doing it for them, not for me, and it was only after the abortion that I came to my senses and was able to acknowledge how I really felt. I was always uneasy about it, but it was what everyone was doing so I went along with the flow, against my better wisdom.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

In my case it's not even about fear of being attacked. I always hated the idea that men might be imagining me naked, having sex with me. Even that makes me shudder. Why make it even easier for them?
I don't want to be seen naked by men. Now, as a widow not interested in remarriage, not by ANY man.
I'm fine in communal showers with women.

^My advice, if accused of being prudish, is to just say so what, and shrug it off. Embrace the term. Too often I see here people defending their opinion by the disclaimer, I'm not prudish, but.... Drop the disclaimer. Know that it's OK to have tighter personal boundaries. Don't be impressed when someone says, oh I'm so free, I don't care.
I'm free too, but in a different way.^

This. They're my boundaries.

[HarryHarry]

I was like that at school. My friends would accuse me of being frigid and I’d say “So what? I have standards.” I don’t know where I got those standards from, certainly not my parents, but I always instinctively felt that most boys/men didn’t “deserve” to get anywhere near me. It sounds really conceited when you say it like that but I kind of wish today’s generation of girls would have the same level of self-respect and self-esteem instead of prioritising their attractiveness to men above all things.

[PermanentTemporary]

Calling a woman with sexual boundaries prudish? How original. And who has defined what is 'over-modest' - you? Or them?

This is where the Staniland Question is useful. But the sheer viper's fury of the pushback it gets is eye-opening.

[Lamahaha]

I remember one American guy I met in Bombay. I was about 25, I think. We were both passing through, happened to meet somewhere, and spent time together on the beach. He took it for granted that I'd sleep with him, and got really angry at me when I said no. Called me a prude and frigid.
That's the day I embraced those words.
You'll never hear me saying "I'm not a prude, but..."

[fascinated]

I just say „I’m modest and happier that way.“ Agree with the idea of nobody having a right to access me. One of the only benefits of my Catholic upbringing — didn’t stop me doing what I wanted but I was damn sure it would only be on my terms.

(Possibly why a sexual assault by a random stranger in the street in my mid thirties really shook me — I had really been in charge til then, but that tore my world apart. Suddenly I felt so, so vulnerable.)

[TehBewilderness]

@CatandtheFiddle

Can I piggy back on this thread to ask what people feel about being called "prudish" or "over-modest" or "uptight" about mixed sex changing rooms?

Setting aside the voyeur/sexual harasser/sexual assault aspects, have people come up against the:

"What-are-you-so-worried-about-bodies-are-natural-girls-should-not freak-out-at-seeing-penises"
argument.
What do you say (seeking handy hints & tips for the next time I'm accused of prudishness.

If the wankers and the nice guys came with proper labels we wouldn't need separate changing rooms. Unfortunately a quick review of news stories of men jerking off on women and hiding cameras in toilets and changing rooms should tell a person everything they need to know about why women do not want to strip in front of strange men.

[TehBewilderness]

Regarding Canada they appear to be planning to keep the C-16 consultation a deep dark secret since everything women warned them would happen is now happening.

[Lamahaha]

That's interesting -- details?