Sex related question on the 111 online CV symptom assessment checker.

[PerspectivePleaseForFucksSake]

(Apologies if this has already been posted and I have missed it)

Has anyone experienced the (understandably) very long wait times for 111 if they have a CV concern? Last weekend I developed symptoms and as a responsible citizen, as the government advises, I first went through the online 111 CV symptom checker, to be greeted by this helpful advice (and you can tell how unwell I've been that it's taken me days before feeling well enough to post it, despite the anger it induced!)

Background - obviously the 111 service is overwhelmed. I got worse and had to speak to my GP as I was feeling desperately ill, who said it sounds overwhelmingly like CV, and pneumonia. I'm starting to come out the other side but have been very unwell (underlying health issues too).

The feeling of being unable to breathe and knowing the health service is overwhelmed and possible unavailable to help you is fucking terrifying. The feeling that the people are contributing, and being encouraged to contribute to the service being overwhelmed with calls like that is also fucking terrifying. It's a CV related medical service that needs to know your sex, it shouldn't give one flying fuck about your gender.

If seeing questions like that, in that context, in the current crisis doesn't make people realise, what will?

PS I've NCed for this as I don't feel up to having this linked to my posts separately about my health which may be a bit outing, but I'm a long term FWR poster.

PPS Please MN do not move this to the CV topic as it's a feminist issue not just a CV issue.

[FlockofGulls]

This is a good demonstration of the difference between sex and gender:

We don't know if there's something about COVID-19 that makes men more vulnerable to it because
a) they are male (biological)

or

b) because in China & Italy more men smoke (socialisation)

Or a combination of the two.

It's why we need sex data - they are the more reliable, and indicate a clear distinction physiologcally/biologically.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

From an article about the observed difference in the rates at which people die from coronavirus depending on their sex.

“The UK and US aren’t there,” said Hawkes. “They must have that data, they’re just not presenting it in that way.”

Gee, I wonder why China might be able to provide accurate data about the sex of patients while the US and the UK might not, or have the data but decline to provide it? China is rather notably un-woke.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

In the case of Covid19 we don't know why yet but sex does seem to potentially make a difference in the outcome so it would be very foolish not to collect accurate data.

[R0wantrees]

I actually think the sentence that accompanies this section should say 'please select the sex you were born with as determined by your sex chromosomes' followed by an additional choice of 'please select the gender you consider yourself to be currently'. No need to redirect people with gender dysphoria to phone 111.

Two boxes, Sex (as at birth) & current gender identity (if applicable) is the way to capture meaningful data.

The transactivists who have lobbied to deny that this is the optimum accurate, & respectful response (especially within healthcare) have done a great disservice not least to the people they claim to represent.

[picklemewalnuts]

Filled a Gov. form yesterday which states 'sex at birth' as a category.
Pretty clear and unambiguous, statistically speaking.

[Soontobe60]

@Lougle
It stops people who otherwise might be put off using the service from walking away. It might prevent someone presenting in a much worse state than if they got help earlier.

And it might stop someone who has been trying to ring 111 for hours, if not days, and can't get through, from just giving up. If you're so badly affected by gender dysphoria that you're unable to click a box that says what actual sex you are as opposed to what gender you present as, then you've got more to worry about than an illness that for most people is quite minor.
I actually think the sentence that accompanies this section should say 'please select the sex you were born with as determined by your sex chromosomes' followed by an additional choice of 'please select the gender you consider yourself to be currently'. No need to redirect people with gender dysphoria to phone 111.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

Keep in mind that these are the same people who have in the past claimed that the keratinized skin used to line the neovagina turns into non-keratinized skin like what you'd normally find in a vagina over time because "it knows that that's what it's supposed to be". Indulging people's delusions is risky at the best of time but it's risky to more than the individuals themselves in the middle of a pandemic.

[R0wantrees]

I've just seen a TRA claiming that since TWs take oestrogen, they have the same immune system as women. Fact or comforting fiction?

Dangerous fiction. They have the immune system of a male who is taking cross sex hormones.

What is relevent to HCPs is a person's sex (as at birth), age, pre-conditions & what medication they are taking.
At this time its vital that patients provide this information clearly.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

I'd also imagine that the people answering 111 calls right now will be getting rather irritated if they have to spent a significant chunk of their time reassuring people that no, dear, we don't think you have to be a man or a woman, you can be anything you feel like, and now that I've stroked your ego for a while could you please tell me your actual sex so I can give you appropriate advice.

[corpsebrid3]

Some sensible data collection from a health app

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

What it should say is "Not everyone sees themselves as female or male, but in this case how you see yourself doesn't matter at all, so suck up your pride and select the correct sex so we can actually help you".

[NotTerfNorCis]

I think I've read before that females taking testosterone damage their immune system. Not sure about males & estrogen.

I've just seen a TRA claiming that since TWs take oestrogen, they have the same immune system as women. Fact or comforting fiction?

[SophocIestheFox]

You’re not wrong to be fired up about this, OP.

We all know what sex we are. All of us. And when it comes to knowing what healthcare a person needs, your sex is what matters. Not your gender identity. It’s utterly maddening that people are being encouraged to waste resources with this self indulgence.

I was pleased when the covid 19 tracking app asked for “your sex at birth”, for all that the “at birth” bit is redundant, it still is pretty clear, with no faffing about with multiple options. However, it did cross my mind to wonder if there are some trans activists who are so delusional that they will select the wrong option, which will fuck up the stats, and I have to believe that the number of people who would do this is so low that it won’t make a difference, because otherwise my head will explode with rage at the selfishness.

Hope you feel better soon, OP.

[Binterested]

The new Zoe app which is tracking outbreaks of the illness asks if you are male or female. No ifs. No buts. No rather not says. Just male or female.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-52033210

[Sexnotgender]

What a pile of self indulgent, life threatening bollocks. ANYONE who phoned because they don’t really feel male or female or whatever needs to fuck off to the far side of fuck and keep going.

Sorry you’re unwell, hope you’re feeling better soon

[Al1Langdownthecleghole]

Hope you're feeling better Perspective. I actually suspect that in the circumstances, there are a few biology deniers who may temporarily start believing in science.
No doubt once they've recovered we'll here how literally violently they were treated, what with having the correct treatment and everything, but for now at least...

[PerspectivePleaseForFucksSake]

I think, as an example, if your DC is having trouble with their breathing and you're trying to get medical help for them, to wait behind another adult who is using that service simply because they want to say they aren't sure whether they are a man or a woman, it would infuriate you. I actually can't believe we have to type sentences like that to be honest.

This is basic biology! The other question on the page is how old are you. I don't think we could justify the case of someone phoning up and saying "well I'm 45 but in my head I feel like I'm 17" - on the grounds that they might not use the service unless they were able to tell someone that and ask what they should put down! I do genuinely sometimes think I am 17 but I know as an adult with a brain, I need to tell them I'm 45.

Especially at times like these, we simply cannot pander to shit like this at the expense of peoples lives. And I mean that literally (for once a correct use!)

I can't remember the other questions to be honest, I think it simply asked about a cough and a temperature and then said stay away....

[IAmFleshIAmBone]

So they have to clog up the 111 line to ask if having a penis or a vagina makes them male or female wonders will never cease

[CheriLittlebottom]

I think I've read before that females taking testosterone damage their immune system. Not sure about males & estrogen.

[AnyOldSpartabix]

I wonder how much cross sex hormones will affect people physiologically when it comes to the virus?

I think taking testosterone potentially might make you more susceptible. But that should be covered if there’s a section on medication, which I presume there was (OP?).

[HorseRadishFemish]

That was a good example cheri..

[Gingerkittykat]

I wonder how much cross sex hormones will affect people physiologically when it comes to the virus?

Is a biological man taking HRT or a biological woman taking testosterone more or less at risk than their birth sex?

[FlockofGulls]

The feeling of being unable to breathe and knowing the health service is overwhelmed and possible unavailable to help you is fucking terrifying. The feeling that the people are contributing, and being encouraged to contribute to the service being overwhelmed with calls like that is also fucking terrifying. It's a CV related medical service that needs to know your sex, it shouldn't give one flying fuck about your gender

Agree totally.

I'm fine at the moment - Ive not been out of the house for 2 days & am symptom free, but have an underlying health condition (asthma) and live alone. I'm very fit & healthy (excellent peak flow readings) but I am trying to stop myself getting very scared.

The thought that 111 might be taken up with effing snowflakes whining about their gender when we know that the COVID-19 operates differently in male & female bodies, makes me fume.

There's enough panicking & snowflakery about (on MN for example), without this totally unnecessary weight on the system.

[TheShoesa]

The 111 page has been like that for some time (at least a year, possibly longer) so while I agree that phone calls shouldn't be made at this time it isn't actually that the service is inviting calls in this instance.