Teaching teen boys about misogyny

[BrexitWife]

This is across over between feminism/misogyny and parenting.
Two teens boys (13 and 15yo).
I’ve tried my best to teach them about equality between men and women, show them how men/boy and women/girls could be treated differently etc...
But I’ve clearly failed as

• Dc1 has been nicely mansplaining me and refusing to trust what I’m telling him t(and asking for confirmation from his dad who had much less knowledge than me on said subject )
  
• If I’m telling dc2 that he is doing xxx wrong, I’m basically told off, he never said xxx (as an adult could be constructed as gaslighting).
  

Bar the basic lack of respect towards me as a parent, I’m also very concerned that this attitude will just carry on towards women in general as they grow up (because they would not dare saying anything like this or behaving that way towards H).

So, do you have any ressources that coud help me explain misogyny to them as well as the ‘big’ behaviours that are actually disrespectful towards women?

Cor full disclosure, I’m fighting an uphill battle as their behaviour is often H behaviour and school is atrocious on that score (keeps treating boys and girls in a different way, you have girls stuff -eg films- and boys stuff etc etc). Which means very little good role models around :(

[AuntyElle]

But if your husband doesn’t respect you - and continually shows you and your boys that - that has to be a defining influence. Your teaching them about feminism is trumped by this reality.

[BrexitWife]

Tbh I really dint care if it’s seen as uncool and old.
RESPECT isn’t ucool and a lot of what feminism is about is respect.
Respect for the other person a worthy human being rather than a second class citizen.
It could be about gender, race or anything else.

[BrexitWife]

We are nowhere near the point here he is going to lock horns with him.
But he has started to make comments about ‘dad being flaky’ and comparing him to one of his friends at school (that wasn’t a compliment. Dc1 had been moaning about said friend for weeks!)

There is a clear expectation of ‘do as I say’ from H that might well stop them expressing what they really think.
Plus dc1 hates conflict.
What might well happen is that they will have less and less contact with him when they will have left home though.

But thanks for reminding me that teenagers are also well... teenagers. And therefore are likely to want their way, impose their POV etc...

[Wrathofjurgenklop]

I am also female, did the same thing to my mother.
My poor mum, I feel bad about it now.
Your husband is likely to lock horns with your son at some point.
It will surprise your husband, it won't surprise you.

[AngryAttackKittens]

All teenagers are little shits to one extent or another, so they'd be challenging you and being smug about knowing everything anyway, but I agree with others that the real issue here is your husband modeling disrespectful behavior towards you.

[chaoticgood]

I am female. When I was a teenager, I gaslighted (lit?) my poor mother to distraction.

[Wrathofjurgenklop]

Because as babies and children they have forgotten all about the nurturing you have given them all these years. I mean, when you were up all night tending to their needs for what seemed like forever.
Now you are in a battle of wills over what seems like small things.
Pick your battles, stand your ground and they will absorb your influence even if they'll never admit it.

[Wrathofjurgenklop]

I guess your 15yo is flexing his alpha muscles. Does your husband and son exhibit alpha male behaviour outside of the home?

[Wrathofjurgenklop]

From what I have experienced, boys have this belief that they really are better than girls, it seems to start around 9 or 10. I'm not sure quite what cements that in their head, apart from the media stuff. Girls come to realise this slowly and it gradually erodes their confidence in little ways. When I look back to when I was that age, I think I was more my authentic self then. Women seem to spend a lifetime searching for that.

[BrexitWife]

bewilderness at least that’s not something they’ve ever heard in our house!

[BrexitWife]

Id be very very wary of transmitting your feelings about him onto them. They are still children

Fully agree with you on that. And something I’m very aware about.

I’m not sure I can have a healthy relationship with their dad. I’ve tried for a long time now.
What I can do is to show them that I will not accept behaviour that is demeaning to me and pull H up on that. Which I have done and I am doing.
I’m also trying to ‘discuss’ stuff I have seen in the news/book/Facebook as a way to discuss how xxx isn’t acceptable. H is never supporting me but at least they’ve heard about it.

[TransplantsArePlants]

I apologise that that comes off as critical of you. You are trying your best.

[TransplantsArePlants]

I would also be wary of labelling this as a misogyny problem.

IMO, the Best we can do for our sons (I have two boys) is to have healthy relationships with their fathers.

I also think you have a DH problem, and in that context I'd be very very wary of transmitting your feelings about him onto them. They are still children

[thebewilderness]

They learn contempt for women the first time they are told 'you don't want that, it's for girls, and they hear being like a girl used as an insult, by adults.
It is usually in the teen years that they apply that lifetime of learning contempt for our half of the population to their mother.

[UpstartCrow]

What does your DH say about their behaviour towards you? Can he see it, and does he see it as a problem?

[YorkieDorkie]

This is a DH issue.

[BrexitWife]

It’s him that has failed them if they have absorbed his toxic attitude

Thanks. I needed to hear that again....

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Your husband has responsibility as well for not demonstrating how to treat you with respect, and for not pulling the children up on it.

Is there any way you could make continually pulling them up on their patronising behaviour lighthearted? A sort of in joke? Trying to think of any comedy sketches with male characters who do this that you could reference...there must be lots but I can't think of them right now!

[Offred]

It’s him that has failed them if they have absorbed his toxic attitude. You don’t yet know how it will all turn out.

But pick your battles, if leaving h is on the cards and you need to recover your own health, on balance I would say energy is better directed towards getting away from the source of the toxic behaviour.

[BrexitWife]

I’m feeling very sad about it all.
A feeling that I’ve somehow failed them.
But also the worry that I will grow finding them really annoying because that sort of behaviour in men is really putting me off.

They are lovely kids. Really nice kids.

[BrexitWife]

I like to think that even though there isn't always evidence of what they are being taught sinking in at this age, they will hopefully retain it as the get a bit older.
Me too!!

Re leaving H this is planned but needs planning (I need to regain my onw health first).

The dcs aren’t rounding on me as such. It’s more the fact that they really dont see let’s say telling me how to do xxx (which happens to my job too!) an issue. When pulled up on it, you first have disbelief, then it sorts of sinks in. But I know that there isn’t enough self awareness on their side so it will happen again.
Maybe the answer is to pull them up on it again and again but then I often feel I spend my time telling them off. (Which H is ‘very good’ at and one reason why I’ve let some stuff go).

[AngelsSins]

I don’t think you’ve failed OP, I think your husband has.

[OvaHere]

I've got boys, two teens and a preteen. I find they do actually listen to me on most stuff and choose to come to me to discuss things (as much as any teen does).

Downside is they also view me as the doer and fixer, not sure if this is a motherswork or a womenswork thing. Perhaps one thing leads to another but I do try to encourage independence, teaching them to cook, manage money, wash their clothes etc..

I always pull them up on behaviours and attitudes but sometimes it feels like it falls on deaf ears. One of them has ASD and is very b/w about certain things.

It's hard to say how it will turn out because they are still quite immature and at an age where things like daft memes and youtube videos are the height of hilarity.

I like to think that even though there isn't always evidence of what they are being taught sinking in at this age, they will hopefully retain it as the get a bit older.