Lost language

[Guadeloupe]

Heard today on Woman's Hour:

"...so that affects the care that can be given to women and to other persons who are pregnant ..."

[ChattyLion]

In years to come gender identity will be something your silly grandparents did. It's the blue rinse of the future.

So true, and both funny and sad. I just really hope that the brew of social media documenting everything + ways of formal identity recognition in society + pressure towards speedy medicalisation as a way of ‘confirming’ being trans doesn’t mean that adults feel they are stuck with choices that they made when they were questioning their identity as a teenager or young adult. (If they no longer feel that way.)

I am so grateful that I can be me now without feeling like my teens and early 20s choices dictate my adult life now. It’s an absolutely horrible idea.

[Ereshkigal]

My gosh, you're right, what a mystery that is! Why on earth wouldn't those things be headline news if it were the other way round?

Lol got to hand it to you there.

[whoputthecatout]

so that affects the care that can be given to women and to other persons who are pregnant according to Woman's Hour.

Puzzled question.....

Q So who besides women can become pregnant?

A Trans men

Q But transmen are men, and men they cannot become pregnant, so who are these other people who can become pregnant?

A Um, ah, gibber gibber

[BeyondPink]

"Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies?"

There is of course, also a particular group that tend to make the news disproportionally for law breaking. But not sure I can make that point without someone coming along and saying "all mn think trans people are violent perverts"...

[ToeToToe]

I concur Peterson has some points around free speech and about men needing to grow up - do good problem analysis - it's all the rest of solutions he proposes, his views on women etc where his thinking is limited yet taken by some as gospel

He's no feminist, that's for sure. If he was, he might well be the perfect man

[RatRolyPoly]

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies?

My gosh, you're right, what a mystery that is! Why on earth wouldn't those things be headline news if it were the other way round?

"Woman has baby!"

"Man succeeds in business!"

It's not like those things happen every day.

[ToeToToe]

Transgender women runners, weightlifters and so on, are likely to smash the current records held by women.

I'm guessing it will hit Wimbledon at some point - a female tennis player will have little hope against a mediocre male tennis pro. The Williams sisters said they would struggle to beat the top 200 male players, if memory serves. And there's a lot of money to be made from being a Wimbledon Champion.

[ErrolTheDragon]

And for winning women's awards, and (often retrospectively) for being 'the first woman '. Of course, other than giving birth there are few 'firsts' likely to be open for transmen to scoop from men.

[TransplantsArePlants]

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics


No I hadn't. Bloody hell - of course they do.

[user546425732]

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politic

I think you'll find it's calling having your cake and eating it. Poor little loves are so insecure, unlike women, that they have to cling on to things that they get because they are male. Women don't tend to need those levels of external validation.

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

I concur Peterson has some points around free speech and about men needing to grow up - do good problem analysis - it's all the rest of solutions he proposes, his views on women etc where his thinking is limited yet taken by some as gospel

[ToeToToe]

I know FWR has a lot of dislike for the old Peterson - but he's one to listen to on the 'lost language', of course.

We should be concerned about the lost language, but even more concerned about the compelled speech - already "misgendering" (or correct gendering, biologically) is a deletable offence on Mumsnet - and I think, a ban-able offence on Twitter. It's literal violence. (It's not - that's not what literal means - more twisting of language).

Words mean something - they have definitions/applications that evolve - but it should not be enforced.

(I'll get off my soapbox now).

[ToeToToe]

Peterson's Hour

He's right on gender identity and free speech though

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

R4 Person's Hour

I misread this as Peterson's Hour - what would all the big brother censoring taking place on here as elsewhere - doublethink in action enabled by lawyers and organisations kowtowing to their PC "masters"- plus JP's word salad and omnipresence fucking everywhere - it made sense to my deliberately addled mind

[ToeToToe]

God, yes. Your lecturer is so right. But thinking about it, it is frightening how many of those things happen - and take years and years to be uncovered - maybe some are never uncovered at all, or not all that publicly. And always too late - lives have already been ruined. "Oranges and Sunshine" was only uncovered by the work of one social worker - it was completely brushed under the carpet. Magdelene Laundries, Jimmy Saville, so much abuse.

Hopefully, this thing, where we're trying to raise awareness of it as it's happening - will be different.

[ToeToToe]

It's illogical, ideological, totalitarian, oppressive - the ideology is a "belief" that a feeling in your head can be legislated for, and that people can be battered into believing it, and using the Newspeak.

These things never, ever work. Sanity will prevail - eventually - I have no idea how long it will take - but it will. My guess is, it'll come crashing pretty quickly down when it does - and it'll be the medicalisation of children that does it.

[Ereshkigal]

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies?

Yes.

[ToeToToe]

Meh, we'll keep fighting. Eventually people will come to their senses.

When Matthew Wright and Lowri Turner get it, and are talking about it on weekday mornings on terrestrial TV - we're getting somewhere.

[ToeToToe]

R4 Person's Hour.

How about Non-man's hour? That's got a real ring to it.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Women's and, er, other persons who do things only women can actually do's, Hour?

[Waddlelikeapenguin]

thebewilderness
Yep, the more things change the more things stay the same... because mammals cant change sex