What kind of feminist am I?

[Seachangeshell]

So, I'm a long time lurker but not posted before. My favourite place to hang out is the feminist chat room. Here's my thing. I've been a feminist all my life, even when it was really unfashionable in the late 90s! Recently I've become a lot more interested in it, mainly thanks to looking on here. But what kind of feminist am I and does it matter? I did a serious seeming online quiz and I turned out to be a mix of everything but a bit more in the liberal feminist camp. Not sure if I agree with this. Isn't Liberal Feminism a bit wishy washy - do anything you like sort of thing? My views aren't like that - I think we need to take political action to achieve the aims of feminism.
I suppose I'd really like to know what kind of feminist are you? What does that mean you believe? And does it even matter at all anyway?

[Leila78]

I suppose I'm a radical, socialist feminist. Libfems are imo - on the whole - complicit in what they critique.

[NameChanger22]

Perspective Score
Radical feminist 42
Liberal feminist 39
Cultural feminist 38
Women of Color 30
Socialist feminist 29
Conservative 13

I thought I would be more socialist than that. I'm not surprised that radical and liberal are so high though.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

The first wave was complex ... some historians argue that in maternal feminism (give us the vote / public roles because of women's maternal functions and the goodness these could bring to a heartless world) the seeds of cultural feminism (which branched off from radical feminism) were sown. But mostly the first-wavers were 'liberal' yes. But liberalism was also prominent in the second wave.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"So if you recognise liberal values such as the worth of education, equality, rights, freedom of choice, etc. then you are probably a second wave liberal feminist. "

I was taught that liberal feminism was the first wave i.e. concentrating on legal rights. I thought radical and socialist feminism was the second wave.

[SenecaFalls]

Certainly if you start with the dictionary definition of feminism, men can be feminists. I do think that men can be feminists, but the use of the term "feminist ally" emphasizes the notion that in feminism, and especially in feminist activism, men should listen to and follow women. Women should do the leading because it is their lived experience with oppression that informs every aspect of feminism.

[OlennasWimple]

Interesting question there, Venus: can a man be a feminist?

I flip flop on this one, and haven't quite reached a conclusion what I believe.

But welcome Dadaist (great name, BTW)

[venusinscorpio]

Good to hear from you. I'd personally consider you, as a man, to be a feminist ally rather than a feminist, but I appreciate others disagree!

[Dadaist]

Er - very hesitant guy here - but with two young daughters who I want to have every opportunity to live a good and happy life free of patriarchy and sexism.,,and I'd like to think of myself as a feminist too (not always a very good one tho!) Anyway - I've always considered there to be three types of feminists- liberal, socialist and radical. Liberal feminism is concerned with social and legal rights, socialist feminists are concerned with economic oppression and the liberation of oppressed groups from racism homophobia and the general relationship between capitalism and social divisions. Radical feminists concentrate more sharply on men and women in society and apply the Marxist socialist analysis of class struggle (workers versus capital) to men and women - such that what is in men's interests oppresses women and what liberates women will be opposed by men.
I'm a socialist feminist but recognise some important contributions from a radical perspective and get irritated by middle class feminist perspectives that ignore the wealth and privilege enjoyed by some women that oppresses other minorities (which can include working class men and women).
But I'm very interested in women's perspectives to educate my views, and like disabled rights or anti-racism, the voice of those living with the struggle are what count more than my well intended solidarity.
As a woman you can be any kind of feminist you like - what bothers me most is that the term is used as something derogatory or extreme or politically deviant when feminism has at its heart social justice.

[SenecaFalls]

YetAnotherSpartacus Good points about how notions of liberal feminism have changed from what they were in the second wave. I always come out high in that quiz on Radical Feminist, but I live in a fairly conservative society and part of my job is to advance feminist values so I function very much as a liberal feminist (in a working within the system, legislation is the answer second wave type of liberal feminist). Every time I take that quiz, I score higher on radical; I attribute that to MN-FWR.

[IDoLikeToLiveBesideTheSea]

Thank you too, OP, for starting this thread. Here are my musings (I started that survey but balked at the god-bothering questions which didn't allow me to opt out of answering them).

I too am a long time lurker, and have been drawn here to Feminism Chat by the trans threads. I've been horrified about the reality of trans ideology on women, the gender prison and the homophobia inherent in it.

I never took much notice of feminist theory at uni (many years ago...!), but did and do practice feminism. Having read these pages voraciously, and associated links such as the Reddit Gender Critical page, I realise that I'm a hardcore (!) radical feminist. I'm the only person I know who doesn't shave my legs for example, and openly wears shorts in summer. I think of my hairy legs as feminine because they are natural. I think of shaving as women trying to look like pre-pubescent girls. I do find it peculiar that so many progressive people choose to shave. I think it's about courage, although people come out with weak statements about how 'I do it for meee!'

So things that I thought were regressive and anti-feminist are actually liberal feminist! Who would have thought. Here I was, thinking that high heels and pole dancing was anti-feminist, and being a bit puzzled as to why orthodox Marxists I knew were doing it...

It makes me feel really sad and quite revolted that close friends of mine did a massive u-turn at uni and became BDSM kinky, and what I now know as liberal feminists. Before this they were critical of the sex industry, running campaigns against it. I feel awful that while I was campaigning against sexual torture and rape of women in war zones at uni, they may have been coming along to talks to collect ideas for their bedroom antics. Ugh.

Anyway, thanks to all the women here for your inspiration and hard work.

At least now I know that my discomfort has a home, and that there is a community of unreconstructed (is that word being used in the right context?) second wave feminists. I've read a bit of the Female Eunuch for the first time and every bit of it speaks to me. I also read Sheila Jeffreys' Gender Hurts and it was brilliant.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Lass - it does not surprise me that the quiz (written in 1998) found you were a liberal feminist. In the olden days (second wave) liberal feminists were those who believed in quite simple equality for women, change via legal reform and in the capacity of education to effect change. They were exemplified by NOW, Betty Friedan and probably most mainstream women who called themselves feminist. Their position is almost mainstream accepted now in most places (maybe not in Trump's US). The kinds of things they argued for were better rape laws, recognition of rape in marriage, access to contraception / abortion, girls in boys subjects, etc., equal pay for equal work and challenging stereotypes. They were upholders of the sex / gender distinction (they argued it was harmful to women), but also put a great emphasis on choice (i.e. women should be encouraged to work because this will give them economic equality, but it should be their choice to do so / not do so). So if you recognise liberal values such as the worth of education, equality, rights, freedom of choice, etc. then you are probably a second wave liberal feminist.

There were always tensions in liberal feminism. For example, most did not openly support porn and prostitution (some did, no 'type' is ever completely homogenous), but few openly campaigned against porn or for prostitution reform, partly (not wholly) because they did see it as 'choice' and also because they considered it to be contradictory to argue for abortion on the basis of freedom of choice / rights to one's body etc. and they against prostitution.

The modern mob seem to have resolved this dilemma by emphasising some elements rather than others. Whatever the current wave is (third? fourth?) has morphed this into a more libertarian model maybe even with anarchist undertones. It is significantly different. There is more emphasis put on choice, the s/d distinction has been 'terfed' (not that pune, or play on words) for 'gender is about choice' and there is more emphasis on free-enterprise, women as entrepreneurs, etc.

[OlennasWimple]

Me either...

This in Psychology Today suggests my guess at a definition was broadly right

[SenecaFalls]

So a "complementarian" view then. Otherwise known as "not feminist."

I can't figure out which answers of mine would even give me 10 percent.

[OlennasWimple]

I figure that "conservative feminist" must mean something like the women who say "I believe men and women are equal but women are better at raising children and men are better at going out to hunt work"?

[SenecaFalls]

Radical feminist 46
Women of Color 39
Socialist feminist 38
Liberal feminist 34
Cultural feminist 29
Conservative 10

I'm American so it's not culturally skewed for me, but I can't figure out what conservative means in this context.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Oh and thanks Devi, Xeno, and Bertrand !

[Pizanfan]

The issue of feminism is so complex why would you want to label yourself?

On some issues I am pretty radical, on others liberal, however I am a very stem field orientated person, so I find it hard to identify with certain types of feminists, especially millenial types who seem to have been manipulated by mainstream media and swallowed certain narratives.

Ultimately treat feminism like you would any other system, with skeptisism, and optimism, what works for you won't work for everyone, don't bend to anyones will and follow what you believe is right.

[OlennasWimple]

My results:

Perspective Score
Radical feminist 44
Socialist feminist 42
Liberal feminist 41
Cultural feminist 39
Women of Color 37
Conservative 10

Not sure what it really means...

Is there a more UK version of this somewhere?

[AndShesGone]

Interesting. I came out as a Liberal feminist as highest by far.

I think that's to do with the wording of the questions. If they said 'the patriarchy/patriarchal structure of society' instead of saying 'Men'/Men's then I wouldn't have disagreed with so many of the statements.

I consider myself a radical feminist but also very liberal.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Basically, they contend that there are essentially different (genetic, bodied, hormonal) differences between men and women and that there is an oppressed and hidden female nature that is allowed to flourish would rid the world of war because we are all so peace-loving as a result of being child-bearers, etc. See also 'goddess worship' and feminist witchcraft

Right, that explains the several odd questions and the, for me, unanswerable "goddess/deity" question. I was puzzled at what they were getting at.

I agree with Almond re the WOC questions.

[venusinscorpio]

Libfem just pipped radfem by 1 point. If there had been questions about trans issues or more about porn and prostitution I think that would have been different! Also I think intersectionality is great and very much needed in theory, but in practice it ends up as a meaningless oppression Olympics where trans women are always the most oppressed

[BertrandRussell]

Lass- who are you going to sue for defamation of character?

Mind you, I am delighted to be proved right..........

[Xenophile]

[DeviTheGaelet]

lass!! An Internet quiz says you are feminist How do you feel??!
I got similar scores to you but I don't wanna be a libfem so the quiz must be wrong

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Sorry this