Can you be a feminist, but still prefer the man to be dominant in your own relationship?

[flanjabelle]

I wholeheartedly agree that men and women should be equal. We should have the same rights, the same pay, the same opportunities, etc etc.

However, in my own relationship I feel most comfortable in a more old fashioned set up. I am happy to stay at home and raise my child. I am happy to be the one to cook and clean and organise the home. I have raised my child, feeding her, bathing her, teaching her, being up with her in the night.

I prefer my partner to go to work, and be less involved in raising our child. I like cooking for him and doing the housewifey things. I like him to be dominant in the bedroom. I like that he is stronger than me. I like that he does the heavy lifting and the typical man jobs. I feel happy and secure in this type of relationship.

He is not abusive, he does not control me, he wholeheartedly supports me in whatever I want to do. He calls himself a feminist and would never stand by and watch a woman being treated as an unequal.

Can you love being a 'housewife' and still be a feminist?

That's good!

It sounds like a lot is happening for you at the moment, OP. It must be unsettling to have your partner unwell and to be having to rearrange your wedding plans. Could you/would you like to talk more about what's brought you here, what happened to him that's led to him being in hospital? Were you aware of any mental health issues or is this all quite sudden? I can't help thinking that the feminism/division of labour question has to come second to managing the situation you are in right now.

And to you

So is his illness now connected to his smoking weed? You seem to have tried so hard to make this relationship work, OP. I'm so sorry you're having a tough time.

I think that part of feminism is being able not just to be equal, but to be independent and interdependent. Getting your security from another person is fine, but when roles change as they have done with you, OP (and I'm sorry for what you're both going through), you realise something quite quickly and often soberingly:

Security from an outside source is an illusion that only stays in place for as long as things stay the same. Change quickly whips that particular rug out from under people - and then they get to decide where they want their security to come from: wholly from another person, or from themselves first. (Security from other people and things are great, but your security with and in yourself is your bedrock and your constant.)

That's what feminism is about for me: fighting for, and asserting, the right to have that security for myself. First and foremost. Then, from there, I can choose.

It is a very long story. He was abused and suppressed it for a long time. I didn't know about it until 2 years ago. At that time he spiralled out of control and abused drugs (cannabis, cocaine, crack, anything really). I cut him out of mine and dds life and did go it alone for a while. He got clean, got some help but not enough it would seem.

He is now not on any drugs, but he is not at all well. He is psychotic and at times suicidal. I don't know how much of it was caused by the abuse or the drugs or the dysfunctional childhood in general, I just don't know. All I know is he is a loving, caring person who has been through far too much. He is working hard with the mental health professionals to get well.

I know there is something wrong with me too. My past is shit. I have bpd and suffer with bouts of depression. I'm starting seeing a new therapist in a couple of weeks as I stopped therapy when my dd was born and I don't think I was quite done really.

Ah it's a right old mess really. So possibly not a very good thread for feminist chat! Sorry.

Just be very careful you don't let him use his abuse as an excuse for the drug taking and treating you like shit. Sorry- but I'm old and cynical and alarm bells always ring for me when women go in for rescuing men....

OP, I could be wrong but it sounds to me like (understandably - you've had an awful time) what you want is a bit of security, stability, and not to have to worry about stuff. You're interpreting that as wanting someone else to be "in charge" of the things that you don't have the head space to deal with right now. And now that your partner is not in a position to do that, you're feeling all adrift and yearning for a "traditional" relationship with a man out there earning the money and providing the stability so you can nurture yourself and your children.

It's totally, totally understandable. But in your position, I'd be wanting to get to grips with all the stuff that you find so daunting, so that if the worst does happen in your relationship, you've got all that sorted and can cope easily alone.

It's an interesting sort of question to start grappling with what feminism is about I think.

There is nothing basically wrong with the division of labour, it's how we build specialised economies. The major problem comes when it is linked to specific groups who then have no other opportunities and choices. And even more so when one particular side of the division starts to assume that their labour is the only division that is important or has meaning and worth. (How it came about that the divisions collectively ascribed as women's work came to be thought of as less than men's is very strange when you consider that caring and the specific tasks involving cooking and clothing are the most basic life necessities, but anyway, that's an aside)

There is also a problem with allowing one unequal power relations of any sort: the inequality itself encourages bad behaviour, looking at things like the famous prison experiment, was it Stanford? Men are more violent because they are dominant and can get away with it. Not that it may apply in every individual case, but there is a general trend where that happens.

But yes, it sounds like you have more urgent personal problems right now than grappling with social theory. Either part of the division of labour would be at sea when suddenly chucked into the other half and left to cope.

Bertrand that is not the case, but thank you for your concern.

Jilly- that may be a very big part of it. I could really do with someone looking after me right now, but instead it's me looking after everyone else. My mum is there for me, but it's not the same as having the support of your partner when the shit hits the fan. I know I can cope alone, as I did when dp was using drugs and the months afterwards when he was proving he could stay clean. I do think that you are onto something there though. It's not about having someone to defer to, it's more about the security of someone saying don't worry, I've got this, you aren't on your own.

Bungo - you make some really interesting points. I think because I was raised in a family where the 'woman's work' was valued as highly as the man's, I don't ever feel like what I am doing is of less value. My dad made it clear that if my mum wasn't going everything for us, he wouldn't be able to work and earn money. He was always proud and amazed at how well my mum kept a home and appreciated everything she did. It was never seen as less important than his job. Dp is the same.

It has highlighted to me how safe and secure I felt before. Now I am having to make all the decisions and am the one in charge of everything as he is incapable at the moment.

This sounds a lot like me early in our relationship, then one day i had to grow up, stop being the child become an adult in our relationship, everything changed

Your first post paints a situation vastly different from the reality you are describing. From your first post I pictured a situation such as one of my friends who is married to a very successful surgeon; she gave up work when she was pregnant 10 years ago; has no intention of going back, but does some voluntary work related to her former employment for a charity and the likelihood of her husband cheating/abusing her/ developing a drugs habit etc is non-existent.

Security from an outside source is an illusion that only stays in place for as long as things stay the same

I agree with this. Other posters here seem to be familiar with your situation and from what you and they are saying it's not striking me that you have ever had the sort of security with him you seem to be craving. I've never had to cope with what you are describing (although in my early 20s I dumped a boyfriend because of his drink problem) but for me the one sure thing that has always made me feel secure is the ability to be financially independent.

It sounds really difficult. Given his longstanding health and substance abuse problems it'd be sensible for you to WoH, for the financial stability of your family and to maintain your options in case he returns to using drugs and/or doesn't treat you right.

I am sorry you are in this situation OP.

Everyone relies on a support network of people to raise children. If you had become very ill and were in hospital, your partner would now be struggling to work out how to get childcare and manage a household alone. Everyone feels more vulnerable when someone who they rely on (and we all rely on people emotionally and practically) is really ill. It is hard to suddenly feel you have nobody who you can lean on, particularly if you've no extended family to turn to.

The only thing I'd advise you to do is to try and build up a support network beyond your romantic relationship, which can be hard when social norms seem to be pushing against that.

Feminism is about advocating for and supporting women. It is not about whether or not you are housewife. Being a housewife does not make you submissive. Needing someone to love you that you can rely on does not make you submissive. Worrying about how you are going to cope when someone you love is very ill does not make you submissive.

Your situation sounds very specific OP, and challenging, so I'm not sure a blanket view will be helpful for you. Having said that, I do recognise the horror of 'having to be the grown up' vs being a grown up in the relationship.

Having said that, I'm of the view that not all choices women make - even feminist women - are feminist choices. I don't think that necessarily means the women themselves are not feminists iyswim. We don't make choices in a vacuum, so principles - including feminist ones - are unlikely to be the only influencing factors in any given choice.

Depending on where you look, my house could look very feminist or very much not. One thing I've noticed (we're neither of us very tidy) is that regardless of what we do in or out of the house (I've been main breadwinner for years), it's my dirty / untidy house, never his. He has no societal pressure to clean up and provide that type of 'support'. Equally, I don't get any kudos for leading / providing. Now you could argue that he gets the pressure to lead / provide but in my experience that's not the case. Me leading / providing is just dandy...as long as I make sure the crapper's clean and the kitchen's tidy....

if you social and economic independent then you can be whatever u want