Sharing about harmful effects of porn in a thread in feminism

[Italiangreyhound]

Over on chat we are having a helpful but rather sickening conversation about porn and it's negative effects on young people.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2610074-Anybody-up-for-a-general-chat-about-the-damaging-effects-of-porn-on-young-people

This was prompted by originally sharing the article on this thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2609569-Very-sad-article-about-porn-and-how-it-affects-relationships-for-young-women

I just thought, as Chat threads disappear after 30 days, that people may wish to share their stories anonymously of negative experiences of porn and other may wish to write to their MP about how porn is harming our nation's children.

I am not interested in positive experiences or free will choices, I am interested in young people negatively impacted by porn (or older people who were impacted negatively by its use in the past) or people (women and men) negatively impacted by working or being coerced to work in the porn industry.

I am well aware MPS may not want to read a thread on Mumsnet but Mumsnet themselves may wish to take this further and sharing stories in one place like this may be of use. You could still point your MP to it!

Please only share your own true insights or information you are permitted to share on behalf of another anonymously. I recognise this is all anecdotal but I also feel sharing, and being heard, could be useful.

This is for anyone who wants to share or read about ways:

to share the damaging effects of porn and early viewing or porn, - so to de-normalise it

to inspire others to write to their MP about safer controls or any other measures to challenge the view that porn is normal and that it is not dehumanising

to share resources to fight porn/useful links etc

to share ways of talking to children about it

and finally, to assist people in contacting their schools about this type of thing.

Thank you.

[Italiangreyhound]

I always try and treat everyone normally, my troll-dar never works!

[PalmerViolet]

Splendid.

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

I don't think greypubes will be back to engage anytime soon, seeing as they were a massive troll and have been banned as such now.

Quelle surprise.

[PalmerViolet]

I am a feminist

And I'm here to tell you, categorically, that you aren't.

Not even a libfem.

HTH

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks *KindDogsTail&.

[KindDogsTail]

Greypubes
This was Italian's original post.
I am not interested in positive experiences or free will choices, I am interested in young people negatively impacted by porn (or older people who were impacted negatively by its use in the past) or people (women and men) negatively impacted by working or being coerced to work in the porn industry.

[Italiangreyhound]

The reference to writing to an MP was about saying that we as parents are worried our children may be accessing misogynistic and violent pornography on line and that this may well be having a detrimental affect on children. And when I say children I mean some as young as 11, or even 6, have come into contact with pornography - but I would include in that all children (that is people under the age of 18).

There are two articles here, the second two, which are very interesting. I hope if people are worried they will write to their MP about this and I hope as women we may get organised to speak out about this, and to speak to our children and prepare them for the onslaught....

//www.contributoria.com/reader/4dfe3664fb996911a4d581cdf147e4f0/

[Italiangreyhound]

greypubes re "1 out of 3 viewers of online porn videos are women" care to site your source for this?

Is this once ever, or regularly 1/3 as often as males?

[greypubes]

I am a feminist but I do enjoy watching porn. 1 out of 3 viewers of online porn videos are women. I must confess I watch scenes daily and look forward to it when my husband and kids are out of the house. For these reasons I would not like to write to my MP about it. Apologies to the group.

[VestalVirgin]

Maybe it's just me but genitals aren't particularly attractive and whilst doing things with your own and your partner's set might be fun watching other people 's in action certainly was not.

I always wondered about that. Most people don't look that good naked to begin with, and porn focuses on the genitals, which are not the most aesthetic of body parts anyway ...

[KindDogsTail]

This Hussey man's article said We know men are visual creatures, this is a simply a visual stimulation

So he is twenty seven, the girl in this scenario is in the prime of her youth and beauty, acutually alive and breathing, but he still needs visual stimulation !!

If you ask me he has something seriously wrong with him. But just imagine a young girl being made to feel inadequate and being made to feel she needs to be in competition to be visually stimulating enough.

This is from Gio's article
www.contributoria.com/issue/2014-09/53b7d8cc5cf0625c470000f1/

She found herself coerced into increasingly disturbing sex with him. “It started off being soft stuff but then it became gonzo stuff. He couldn’t have sex with me unless he was watching something at the same time. He couldn’t get erect or have an orgasm. ’As time went on he felt more comfortable putting on things he actually wanted to watch, like simulation rape. I knew that it was acting, but then a few months down the line I didn’t think the women being filmed were acting any more. I now know was he was watching real rape he found online. “It didn’t matter who was lying beneath him, his eyes were on the screen mimicking what he was seeing. He was very violent with anal sex, I would cry and ask him to stop, but because that was what the women in the films were doing, he wouldn’t accept me saying ‘no’ as meaning ‘no’. He thought it was all part of the game, he thought he was doing his acting while I was doing the girls’ acting.

[Italiangreyhound]

lass could not agree more!

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Find a style that works for you and it will be like having a naughty third party there to turn you both on."

Ugh.

I've had almost no experience of porn beyond accidentally (yes honestly) stumbling across a channel on a television in a Dutch hotel room. This was a good few years ago. The participants were clearly adults and weren't doing anything, for want of a better word, unusual. But it wasn't attractive to watch.

Maybe it's just me but genitals aren't particularly attractive and whilst doing things with your own and your partner's set might be fun watching other people 's in action certainly was not.

[Italiangreyhound]

KindDogsTail thanks for linking to that information.... once again a man telling woman how to enjoy sex, what to do, what is normal... such shit.

I've heard of women totally put off sex by porn. Sadly, I think young women may feel they need to appear cool with porn. I think we need to tell them it is not cool for people to be coerced and abused and a lot of porn is about that. At the very least we can tell children that porn is for adults and that these kind of choices need to be made as adults, but we need to not make it sound fun or sexy. I think personal it's toxic and contributes to the abuse of young women.

[KindDogsTail]

I have just been looking back on this thread after Italian posted the link again from a Chat thread on the same subject.

Bitofadoormat I hope one day you will have a good relationship. I am so sorry for what happened. It is very sad as the guy sounded sweet to start with. Thank goodness that you put a stop to it. I am from an older generation and never have had to experience anything like that.

Ophelia thank you very much for coming on here and sharing what you know from your experiences.

I wonder if a person could actually ask a man before going out with him if they are into porn? I am so worried when I think of the young girls having to go through with horrific porn affected sexual non-relationships.

After browsing in W.H Smith's and looking in his book, I was recently interested by a guy called Matthew Hussey who has become a well known womens'
dating guru/coach even though he is only twenty seven himself. He seems to be extremely popular.

I thought some of his ideas sounded quite good for example about women holding up high standards for themselves, having passions, etc. So I was looking up more.
Then I saw that in an article in Glamour magazine he suggested a couple watch "Adult movies together".
e.g it seems all too possible he may be into porn and so desensitised at age twenty seven that he needs this to feel sexual enough.

He has a huge following. So now all the girls will think it is normal to watch porn while having sex. If anyone read those articles Gio posted recently and saw one girl's experiences with this, it is horrible to think what the repercussions can be.

Here is a quote from his "Try-sexual article" in Glamour Magazine

^3. Linger on the adult channel a little while.

Hussey says, "Many people see adult entertainment as cheap, dirty, and unnecessary. But the truth is, watching it with your partner can be a huge catalyst for an amazing sexual experience. I think a large part of why some people are shy about doing this with their partner is it's seen as a taboo and something someone watches when they don't have the real thing. Some are also afraid that their partner will pay the video more attention than them. This isn't the case. We know men are visual creatures, this is a simply a visual stimulation all while having the physical presence from you. It's the ultimate. Find a style that works for you and it will be like having a naughty third party there to turn you both on."^

[Italiangreyhound]

Anyone from the chat thread want to share there views on this one, as chat thread will disappear after a set period of time.

[crazycatdad]

But this seems to be a symptom of pornification - men think they want women to enjoy sex, but actually don't, they just want the illusion of it.

This. Porn not only gives the impression that women are routinely orgasming every other minute during sex, but that the men don't have to make any particular effort or talk to their partners about what does and doesn't feel good to make it happen. Harder and faster is always the answer in porn.

[VestalVirgin]

I have never had an orgasm. I do not enjoy masturbation, though I pretended to for his benefit. He told me it was a turn off that I didn't do it.

So sad - good for you that you got rid of him!

But this seems to be a symptom of pornification - men think they want women to enjoy sex, but actually don't, they just want the illusion of it.

A woman who actually masturbates because she likes it is a woman who knows what she wants, sexually. And that is not what porn-addicted men really want, because it would mean they don't get to reenact porn.

Back when I became a feminist, the fact that many women had never had an orgasm was considered a symptom of male-centric sexuality, and masturbation was supposed to be empowering, something you did for yourself.

This "I want you to masturbate, but not because I think you'd enjoy it but because I have seen it in porn and it's a turn-on" is so perverted - fake sexual liberation. And it becomes so much harder to see the reality through all those lies.

If a man doesn't care whether you have an orgasm, you know that he doesn't care, but if he claims he wants you to have an orgasm, and tries new positions (that aren't intended to increase female sexual pleasure, but just to look cool in porn, but how would an inexperienced woman know?) you can get the feeling that there's something wrong with you, not him, when you still don't have an orgasm.
And as a result, there is a lot of pressure to pretend you enjoy it.


Now that I have written about this ... it is strangely similar to how the whole transgenderism thing distracts from the actual oppression actual women face.

This is patriarchy's new tactics, apparently: To pretend that everything has changed, while in fact, not much has changed at all.

[0phelia]

I know Japan is experiencing real problems and a predicted population collapse because so many of their young adults aren't having sex or going out.

Don't know enough to say if it's because of internet porn, but you sort of wouldn't be surprised if there was an element of that.

[0phelia]

Grimarse Good question!

I find the Japanese and Germans to be the most respectful towards the working girls regardless of their generation. The Scandinavians are brilliant, very relaxed and matter of fact, comfortable in groups and good fun!

I'd say other European counties are seeing the same increase in the hardcore acts amongst their young men.

[Grimarse]

Ophelia, do you have any colleagues/friends from other countries/cultures? We Brits have always been pretty uptight about sex, porn etc. Other countries (Nordics, Netherlands) have historically had a far more open attitude. I am wondering if this change in young men's behaviour is similar across the board, or whether it is more noticeable in the UK?

[0phelia]

I often find the older men who didn't grow up with internet porn to be gentler and more respectful than the younger ones.

There's a tendency with the younger ones to want to slap you about a bit, that sort of thing. (Not after a sharp word from me though).

[0phelia]

Absolutely! I'm retiring the day I turn 40. This is not far off. I've made some investments so financially our family will be secure.

[Italiangreyhound]

bitofadoormat thank you for sharing and I am so sorry to hear about your experiences. I hope you can come to terms with the past and meet someone new who will treasure you, cherish you and love you as you deserve to be loved and not treat you as a play thing.

If you feel it is helpful to explore some non-judgemental therapy, to help you move forward, that may help you. I had anxiety many years ago (not related to sex at all) and counselling really helped me.

0phelia thank you for coming and sharing your experiences.

I am curious, and please tell me to but out but do you have any plans to stop your line of work and change to do something else, or have you already?

For all the women pressurised into doing things you did not want to do- it is not your fault, I know you know that, but the pressure in our society to judge ourselves, judge if we do something and judge of we do not do something, is so strong. You are precious.

Men who do not recognise your worth are not worth it!

[bitofadoormat]

I'm 24. My ex was a little older. We were together as teens until recently.

I believe he is/was addicted to porn.


He behaved in a manner similar to an addict. Needing a bigger "hit" to get the same high.

We first met when he was 16. Sweet, fairly innocent. A virgin. We were each other's firsts.

He probably looked at porn then too, but not as obsessively.

It's hard to pinpoint when it started. It was such a gradual change. Perhaps when he went to uni and made friends with some quite laddish guys.

At first sex was quite soppy and romantic. Neither of us knew what we were doing. Then he started suggesting things. Just new positions at first. I was curious about where he was discovering them and he sheepishly admitted it was from porn. I wasn't particularly surprised as it was widely accepted among my friends that guys watched porn.

It gradually progressed. I really wish I hadn't let it go on for so long.

He started wanting to do more "hardcore" things. Especially anal stuff. I didn't want to do anything.

He would sulk if we saw each other and didn't have sex. He never wanted to cuddle or kiss if it didn't lead to sex.

I ended up trying some things that he wanted because I didn't want to disappoint him. I felt disgusting, but let him do them again anyway. I'd pretend I enjoyed them even though I felt repulsed. Because I didn't want to be unsexy.

A lot of my friends have been through similar. There's so much pressure on young women, probably even worse now, to be "up for it" and willing to try everything.

I stuck with the relationship far longer than I should have and our break up was complicated. But one thing sticks in my mind. I'd recently been diagnosed with IBD. He told me that he was reconsidering our relationship because I'd never be able to have anal sex due to my condition. I reminded him that I've always been upfront about not wanting anal sex. And he told me that had been OK because he though I'd change my mind later on.

At the time I thought I was heartbroken but now I am glad to be free of him. But I'm scared to date again because I worry that many guys will be just as sex obsessed. And that there will be the expectation that I will do various things. I also worry that I so easily gave in to the pressure and sacrificed my own comfort and pleasure for his.

I have never had an orgasm. I do not enjoy masturbation, though I pretended to for his benefit. He told me it was a turn off that I didn't do it.

I faked an orgasm every single time we had sex for our entire eight year relationship. I don't know if he knew. I doubt he had ever bothered to learn anything about female orgasms so probably wasn't suspicious that I always came at the same time as he did.

So many of my memories of our relationship are of me "lying back and thinking of England" or rather "enthusiastically" participating in sex that did very little for me.

He was a really sweet guy before the porn. He used to watch it every night that we were apart. I used to occasionally nose in his browser history. He made little effort to cover his tracks. The most disturbing one was some sort of incest scenario (all adults). I asked him WTF he was watching and he claimed he had clicked by accident. There were all sorts of weird ones with groups and anal etc.

It progressed to chatting online to random women. And random women sending him naked photos. I feel so ashamed now that I put up with it all for so long.

But porn and anal sex and sex pressure is considered normal nowadays.