Santa - It's festive sexism

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I have been mulling this one over and read this article about race and Santa and come to this conclusion... There is no boring, hard, expensive thing done mostly by men where the credit is given to an imaginary woman. Or is there?

In my childhood home, my DF did the stocking buying and Santa took credit for only the stocking. But there seem to be lots of houses where women buy all the presents and they ALL come from an imaginary man. And those women seem to be the most vehement about the 'magic' and not taking credit and being selfless and never telling the kids.

It's festive sexism.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Hence the importance of Mary, especially in the Middle Ages... a time when Christianity was finally taking over from pagan belief systems. She became the embodiment of previous female mythologies albeit with deeply submissive overtones!

[VestalVirgin]

Different societies had different rites associated with different celebrations, it seems to be becoming more homogeneous now, and more concentrated on a fat man delivering all the presents only to good children. Sad really.

Yes, that's one of the reasons I dislike Santa Claus. It is all commercial, there's a rumour he was invented by Coca Cola. Not sure that's completely true, but it would fit.

I have no idea whether there are Native American myths about winter solstice, but it's a shame all those many different cultures from Europe alone are all being eradicated in favour of the fat white man.

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrot]

Santa Claus was predates by the pagan Father Christmas, a version of the Green Man, and was more about bringing good cheer (ie the stuff for wassailing and feasting) than toys. Might be why booze is left out for him, and oranges and nuts feature in stockings, even though they're not exactly top of the modern treat food list.

[howtorebuild]

I think you are correct, the current form of Santa was a Coke invention and we are just as sheepish as those who hang out taking pictures by the Coca-Cola van for a tiny tin of Coke. Another Golden Calf.

[RufusTheReindeer]

Hugh Jackson makes an awesome easter bunny

But i do agree with the whole santa thing being sexist

It does make me laugh when DH says "what have we left to do for christmas"

WE !!! Where did the fucking WE come from!!!!!

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-santa-claus/

It's Coke's own history but seems fairly accurate. Clement Moore's poem has a lot to answer for.

[SenecaFalls]

I'm not a Santa fan and I certainly understand the sentiments of the woman who wrote the article. I grew up in the rural American South, relatively privileged and very aware that we had more than a lot other people did. I was relieved when as a child I learned that Santa Claus was not real. I had figured out that the quality of Santa's gifts was directly proportionate to the relative prosperity of each child's family. This was reinforced by appeals at school and church for less fortunate children whom we should collect for so they would "have a Christmas." When I asked my mother about why Santa did not help the poor children, she told me the truth. I remember feeling only relief.

As a result, I downplayed Santa in our home. Like Lass we had a few stocking presents from Santa, but the rest came from us and other relatives. As soon as our children began to ask about Santa, we confirmed their skepticism with the truth.

It amazes me the extent to which otherwise rational people often go to preserve belief in Santa. On MN and in RL, I have heard people say it's child abuse not to encourage a belief in Santa. I also remember a thread where we were being asked not to refer to non-belief in Santa/FC in thread titles so that any over the shoulder tiny lurkers would not be let in on the truth.

As to the wifework part, for most of my life I have had jobs that get very busy at the end of the calendar year. As a result, DH did, and still does, most of the Christmas shopping.

[bumblebeerat]

I've never really understood the whole Santa thing and can't say I've ever believed in it probably because all my presents came from my parents and family.

We don't really make a thing of it either as we see it as a time of giving to each other not some magical being bringing things if you behave. Also my youngest 5 is absolutely terrified of a strange man coming into the house to the point he started being naughty so he wouldn't come here. We have sorted it with him now but looking at it from his point of view it is a pretty scary idea really when else in the year would you be happy for a stranger to sneak into your house?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

It amazes me the extent to which otherwise rational people often go to preserve belief in Santa. On MN and in RL, I have heard people say it's child abuse not to encourage a belief in Santa. That's one of the things that freaks me out. People are so invested in it.

Part of the reason I posted this was that in one of my friend's houses the Tooth Fairy is male! I thought, "the one fucking bit of credit women get and that's disappeared. No one will care in RL, let me tell MN"

I do wonder what my Marxist Feminist lecturer would have made of this. It is the meeting of capitalism and sexism.

[ErnesttheBavarian]

Is it only to good children though? I eg Germany, Austria, Switzerland there's the tradition of a Krampus, santa's bad side kick for the bad kids. There's no such thing AFAIK in UK. And in all my years I never knew a naughty kid who got nowt. The opposite in fact. Loads of naughty kids getting stack of shit. Miles more than I ever got. So clearly not behaviour dependent at all, despite what the songs may say.

[Kacie123]

When I say "behaviour dependent", I'' not saying that there are many parents who would actually cancel Christmas for a naughty child (in fact a thread here the other day likened that to child abuse, though I think that's an extreme), or just bin the gifts they'd bought them or something.

I'm also not saying that more gifts equal a better Christmas as there are some households (like my DHs childhood) where kids get extra gifts hurled at them rather than affection.

But overall I think that Santa is used as a threat and cajolement yes - not just Christmas carols, but in shops this past week I've heard lots of phrases along the lines of "Santa's naughty list / have you been a good girl this year for Santa / one more tantrum and Santa won't come". A bit like "that policeman will tell you off if..." sort of threat.

I imagine it's slightly lazy or exhausted parenting that works sometimes, especially when kids are over-excited. Maybe not in the MC world of Mumsnet but definitely in the cities near where I live.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

A male tooth fairy raises all kinds of interesting questions!

[Mehitabel6]

It is massively overthinking!

[MrsTerryPratchett]

My DH does the naughty list nonsense with DD. He's been told but he gets to the end of his parenting skills before DD gets to the end of her massively inventive arsing around. Resourceful child.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I imagine a male tooth fairy like this.

[onahorsewithnoname]

I was trying to explain to DS (4) about why I won't have -feckin- Santa in the house, and in the end we read this together
//www.timetravel-britain.com/articles/christmas/santa.shtml

[onahorsewithnoname]

Bloody santa, and the school have made him believe, I told them he didn't, and they have tried indoctrinating him.
He now doesn't know what he thinks, and I can't even think about it without getting the rage.

[onahorsewithnoname]

WRT policemen, he is quite worried about them having,when he was 2, being caught trying to leg it, by a community police officer.

[7Days]

I definitely am one of the over invested in Santa brigade. Don't know why but I am. Agree in principle with the downplaying of Santa but the heart says no. Also don't mind the wifework of Christmas but hate it the rest of the year. More amenable to tradition at this time of year I suppose.

[rivierliedje]

We have saint nicholas here and most kids don't get presents from santa claus on christmas day, they get them from saint nicholas on the 6th of december. I quite like the story behind him: apparently gave dowries to poor girls so they could live on their own terms rather then being married off to whoever would have them.
I think saint nicholas and the british father christmas merged in the US in to santa claus.
This country is tiny, yet the two halves manage to have completely different background myths to saint nicholas, one has a horse and comes from spain, the other is a sort of strange messenger from god sent from heaven! I had friends in primary school who had one parent from each half so had both stories. Then there are small pockets of the country that don't celebrate saint nicholas at all and do saint martin instead in november!

Anyway, feminism, I think probably just another part of patriarchy, rather than actually set up to bring us down.

[howtorebuild]

You know when I was a little girl, we called him Father Christmas, now we all call him Santa.

[onahorsewithnoname]

Father Christmas isn't Santa.
I can put up with Father Christmas, at a push.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I live in Canada. He's Santa here. I always said Father Christmas in the UK.

[treaclesoda]

He has always been Santa in Ireland too, as far as I'm aware. I've definitely never known anyone to talk about Father Christmas, we've always known him as Santa, even my 80 year old parents would talk about Santa visiting when they were wee. In fact, recently we took the kids to an event which kept referring to Father Christmas and they were a bit confused because they weren't familiar with Father Christmas, just Santa.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

It is massively overthinking!

It's also pretty light hearted...

Father Christmas is a particularly English thing, whose roots almost certainly go back into pre-Christian times. He's the Ghost of Christmas Present in a Christmas Carol and is more of an anthropomorphic personification of the jollity of the festival with it's Lord of Misrule, 12 days of feasting and gift giving and the generosity of spirit that was expected of people than an actual person.

As noted earlier though, he's becoming a sort of homogenised fat old man, probably because that view is American (although the idea that he wears red being down to an advert isn't correct) and we mostly watch American films, especially Disneyesque ones.