Performing Femininity and Feminism

[OneFlewOverTheDodosNest]

I've been wondering about the performance of femininity lately, how naturally it comes to some people versus others, and how it has shaped my attitude towards feminism.

For me, performing femininity has never come naturally - I can consciously mirror the actions but it's putting on an act that can be beneficial in certain situations and nothing sticks when I go back to being me, IYSWIM?

I know I've consciously chosen a more feminine appearance at work because the image of a successful businesswoman in my company means highly polished rather than just neat and professional. I'm careful to moderate my natural behaviour in meetings because assertiveness is seen as bolshiness in women. I feel like I'm playing a game without being 100% sure of the rules.

I think this pretence is, in part, why I've been drawn to feminism - because for me everything gender based is an act I'd be happy to be rid of. I'm sure some women find it comes naturally and would probably think this is strange, but is anyone else consciously playing along? And am I somehow doing feminism a disservice for my own benefit?

I've got a lot of thoughts jumped in my head about this that I'm trying to make sense of, but I'd love to hear others thoughts.

[PassiveAgressiveQueen]

"Presentable to clients" requires makeup, no it requires deodorant and an iron

[slightlyglitterpaned]

Quite, madwoman.

[madwomanbackintheattic]

I am trying hard to imagine a fair skinned bloke carefully applying foundation to even his skin tone, mascara to cover his fair lashes, and concealer on his occasional blemish to perfect that 'no make-up make-up' look in order to be presentable for the clients. I'm sure now someone will swing up with a ginger husband to prove otherwise (I've got one myself, thanks) but in general terms, men have not been socialised to believe they are not good enough without 'no make-up make-up' in the workplace.

[madwomanbackintheattic]

Hmm. My female bank manager remembers exactly who wears what, how long they have owned the clothes for (I kid you not. One day she pulled a face and told me I was wearing a top that I used to wear when I worked there 7 years earlier) and from time to time expressed her desire to make over an employee to make them look gorgeous. I should add that the damned top was literally as good as new and had been hanging in the wardrobe for most of that time. It wasn't even a specifically datable top in fashion terms. I am wincing slightly at 'presentable to clients' - because what we really look isn't good enough? Do the men wear make-up to cover blemishes, enhance their natural features in a discreet way, and make themselves presentable to clients? Or do they just, you know, put their tie on and go and shake hands?

[slightlyglitterpaned]

Neither do I, in fact I wear makeup at most once a year myself. Maybe you should hang out in Style & Beauty more

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

If you say so. I don't wear make up at work.

[slightlyglitterpaned]

The heels, dress & makeup for work look isn't glammed up smoky eyes for a night out, Lass, it's that "no makeup makeup" look. I.e. even skin colour, cover blemishes, colour lashes if pale etc. I.e. being "presentable to clients".

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Why do we have this obsession with wearing a certain type of clothing for work anyway? Why not wear smart jeans, a jumper and boots? Would it really affect your efficiency that much?!

My office has dress down days at the end of every month. A few people, including me, never dress down . I asked one of my assistants who usually does why he was wearing a suit- was he seeing a client? No, he said , he wasn't, but he had work which had to be completed that day and he doesn't work as well in casual clothes. My very diligent female assistant agreed she doesn't either.

I know someone (male) who, when working from home, dresses in full suit, including waistcoat and tie. Which just goes to show, there's nowt so queer as folk.

Rather judgementa why should he not ? Possibly, like my male employee, being in a suit focuses his mind that he is at work.

I discussed this thread with my husband, about wearing the same clothes often/ on rotation.He reckons if your boss is a male, he will never have noticed if you have the same suit and 5 identical blouses.

I've worked in private sector law firms for over 30 years. I agree with your husband. Many women adopt the stratagem of a few plain skirt or trouser suits or black dresses. I doubt if you asked their bosses, whether male or female, if they could even remember what an employee had been wearing the day before they would be able to remember.

So far as the suggestion women must wear high heels , lots of make up and be glammed up I can't think of a single one of the many female partners I've worked for or with who have adopted that approach as a career move. Some are more dressy than others but other than being presentable to clients nothing more is required.

[EBearhug]

I mostly don't wear skirts/dresses at work after the day where I ended up crawling round a datacentre floor pulling cables from cabinets. That's really not so practical in a skirt. I do sometimes wear a dress, but I don't often wear them at all.

[slightlyglitterpaned]

I've met quite a few women in IT who felt pressure not to dress in an overtly stereotypically female style - i.e. jeans & tshirt fine, one of the crowd; dress, heels & makeup = must be not techie.

I find it tricky either way - there often aren't enough women in a dept to provide variety, so dressing in the geek uniform of tshirt and jeans gets acceptance, but at the cost of making any women who prefer dresses/clearly fashionable clothing even more isolated. Lose either way, what a surprise. I did go through a phase of wearing dresses, partly as a reaction, and partly because they are far more practical during pregnancy than anything else.

I am generally too lazy to follow fashion, but I do get pleasure in a great coat, or awesome boots - I'm not groomed enough to carry off Dana Scully, but to the previous poster asking if any prominent women look great in trouser suits, then yes, yes she did.

[PassiveAgressiveQueen]

I discussed this thread with my husband, about wearing the same clothes often/ on rotation.
He reckons if your boss is a male, he will never have noticed if you have the same suit and 5 identical blouses. And if he does notice you would get bonus points for not wasting time in the morning on pointless things :)

disclaimer: this is a supposedly houmerous generalisation.

[OneFlewOverTheDodosNest]

A bit of an update, today I am back in trousers and flat shoes which I was fine with travelling to work, and then as soon as I got in the vicinity of the office I seemed to be the only woman not in a skirt and heels which felt a bit strange.

I have had someone comment on my brogues and wimpishly blamed it on hurting my foot at the weekend so thanks to the PP that made that suggestion!

I'm going to stick to the sensible (and warmer) clothes for the foreseeable, but it will be interesting to see how people react to me in terms of assertiveness etc now. As I said previously, as a newer recruit I was specifically steered in terms of expectations of appearance / behaviour to be "prettier" and more compliant/demure but maybe having more seniority will work in my favour. I hope so because my feet are SO comfortable today and I doubt I'll be able to be nice and quiet to make up for it!

[IrenetheQuaint]

I have recently changed career to the public sector where the female work code suits me down to the ground - essentially nice but dull, so cosy dress/trousers with cardigan and flat shoes etc. Hardly anyone wears make-up. It's bliss.

[tribpot]

I know someone (male) who, when working from home, dresses in full suit, including waistcoat and tie. Which just goes to show, there's nowt so queer as folk.

I would definitely start pushing the boundaries of what you perceive to be acceptable, Dodo. Trousers or flat shoes, maybe toning down the makeup, just to see what people say.

I think formal dress for work is meant to provide the same virtues as a uniform - except of course for women, who are (or feel) obliged to provide endless variety in their so-called uniform.

[Etrusca]

A trouser suit, perhaps, DodosNest. Then you can wear comfortable shoes with it too.

Why do we have this obsession with wearing a certain type of clothing for work anyway? Why not wear smart jeans, a jumper and boots? Would it really affect your efficiency that much?!

[OneFlewOverTheDodosNest]

Interestingly, today we had a dress down day at work (oh the excitement!) and almost the entire office were wearing some variation on smart jeans, jumper and winter shoes/boots. One woman was wearing a wool dress with boots but apart from that not a skirt in sight.

So if this is what we (women) wear when we get to choose smart causal clothing, why do we all conform to the absurd and frankly uncomfortable skirt suits that seem to be mandatory? I'm half tempted to get my brogues out again on Monday morning...

[JeanneDeMontbaston]

elendon, get off your high horse - I was just replying to you.

And rape trials didn't come to court so very much more rarely pre-20th than post-20th, either.

FWIW, peasants had clog heels - to keep them out of the mud! They're quite high and called patterns. They were taken over (and taken to ridiculous, Naomi-Campbell heights) by the aristocrisy, but I dunno why. Increasing stature seems as plausible as anything else.

[onahorsewithnoname]

I think the heels were only high in comparison to what was 'normal'. Would the peasantry have had any sort of heel?

[madwomanbackintheattic]

If you are consciously doing the designating and wearing, then it can only be performative. some interesting comments about the 'dapper lesbian' look though. Having been mistaken for a lesbian on more than one occasion because of my dress style and hair cut (And shoes) there was obviously an assumption that's what I was performing. It wasn't my thought process when I cropped my hair or got dressed though. I suppose there is a case to be made that groups do adopt these sorts of signifiers themselves to perform identity. I wonder if that's where the self-policing of rules kicks in, even if the 'rules' have been applied to a group externally, rather than from within? Women assume those cultural norms and end up policing themselves and other women, to maintain group identity. Others who choose not to (hairy legged feminists or 'dapper lesbians') are othered by both the group and the wider society, but are inextricably linked as individual groups by their own identity performance.

Vast over-simplification, obviously. Plenty of hairy legged feminists shave, and plenty of 'dapper lesbians' aren't. But I guess conforming / performing stereotyping becomes a simple way to signify group membership and so bolsters the whole shebang. If you can get groups and individuals to control their own dress and behaviour, it's win win for whoever is setting up the 'rules' in the first place. Panopticon 101.

[GreenTomatoJam]

I thought heels were also to do with riding horses - BBC seems to agree

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21151350

Then the upper classes took it to ridiculous lengths and they entered fashion both for men and women.

[onahorsewithnoname]

Buffet? bluddy phone, I should stick to farming

[onahorsewithnoname]

Sorry that was@ Buffet and her performative utterances

[VestalVirgin]

@Buffy: Yes, some French king wore high heels to make himself look bigger. It was discarded pretty soon as a part of male fashion because it was, well, impractical.

Impractical fashions have been worn by men of all cultures, it is true, but only ever by the privileged. It is the unique situation of women to have to wear impractical fashion AND do practical work.

@Elendon: All suffragettes? I seem to remember something about the first women's trousers being invented around that time.

@onahorse: Women started to wear them? I am rather sure that was how it started.

[onahorsewithnoname]

But who designates it?
If you take jeans as an example how did they move from masculine?
surely it had to happen first?