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Feminism: chat

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A man's perspective

44 replies

tyloshos · 12/10/2014 17:05

I wrote a little dialogue based on some conversations I had with my (male) friends on women issues. I'd like some female insight on the characters I created and mainly whether I represented the feminist arguments correctly (spoken by Bestimist):

WORSTIMUS: This brilliant insight came to me, no matter where we start the history of philosophy, the first philosopher will always be a man. If you would invite all ancient philosophers, then you would see no woman among them. Which is great. The idea that a woman started philosophy, it’s bloody hilarious. They were still busy bearing children, as they should be. It must be men, who sat around the campfire, after a successful hunt and wondered what life was all about.

BESTIMIST: Your dislike for women is preposterous, women are oppressed everywhere in history and you rave on like it is a good thing?

WORSTIMUS: I’d not use terms as good or evil, but say it’s a natural thing. The fact they were treated a certain way, all around the world, throughout all ages but ours, shows the natural state of the world and how far we fell from it. It makes sense that the women were responsible for the children and man had time for real philosophical thoughts. O – the good old days, only in my greatest dreams I see the incredible world they lived in.

BESTIMIST: I couldn’t disagree more, we live in a far better world now. Most of us became enlightened and slowly but surely our lives and the position of women has improved. Fewer wars, longer life expectancy, more freedom, women allowed to vote, etcetera. In a lot of other cultures rape and abuse of women is common place; for them equality is only a fragile wish. But even here in this amazing Western modern world, the point of equality is ever out of reach.

WORSTIMUS: Equals? This whole idea of everyone being equal is so dumb. Women and men are born to be different, they have different bodies, hormones, feelings, brains, I could go on forever. Equality fails, you know what happens if you try to make everyone equal on intelligence?

BESTIMIST: No, but that seems like a different scenario than we are discussing.

WORSTIMUS: Is it? We can’t make the real stupid any smarter, so we will make the rest completely retarded. Hooray! There you will have your equality. You should read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut, a brilliant portrayal of a society dominated by equality, for the “average”, ruled by the “average”. The same would happen if you try to make men and women equal, both their best sides will be removed, and you are left with something that is neither men nor women.

BESTIMIST: Yes, I know that story where all citizens are handicapped to make them equal. That is not what I want either nor what I stand for. I don’t want to change the nature of men and women, I propose to change institutions, values and traditions. Women and men are not so different on a biological level as you assume they are and the major differences is not in their nature, but in the way they are treated. The changes that are happening in society are about rules and social institutions, not about biologically altering women.

WORSTIMUS: Bullocks, nature and nurture are related. For example the testosterone of men declined a lot the last 50 years and women hit puberty earlier than ever before. Real men are disappearing and something else is created. I’ll simplify it for you to show how to make men and women equal: we remove the rationality from the man and cut of his balls to lower his testosterone, we cut of the woman’s breast and remove her sensibility. There you have it: equality – in other words a modern enlightened citizen! The difference between men and women is indeed not so large… anymore! Where once all men had beards, spears and dicks, we now live in a society filled with clean white shaved boys who’s only goal in life is to please one ‘lucky lady’. Women were once sensual yet stable, responsible for giving birth to the next generation and teaching them how to live. Nowadays the only thing women teach each other is how to suck dicks or leech their boyfriends credit cards (by the way these two factors have a causal relationship).

BESTIMIST: You generalize groups of men and women all the time, I can do the same: you still have this ‘romantic’ idea of the past where men were ‘real men’. Like we were better off in caves, filthy, hungry and young to die – ridiculous. It’s hard to find a skull from those times without a hole in it, because another ‘real man’ bashed it in. Who in turn got smashed by an ace of another ‘real man’. Great world you dream of Worstimus.

WORSTIMUS: Oh Bestimist my spiteful stepbrother, do you not see the lies they have woven around your eyes? Like spiders in the night, they created a web of lies so big and transparent, that you got caught in them. Constricted is what you are. While the past might not be perfect, it can teach us a lot. What original thought has ever been created by a woman? What did a girl ever invent? None, and nothing, nihil!

BESTIMIST: You’re wrong, women thought of many great things, which was really hard because they were so disadvantaged, sadly they were not heard or taken seriously. Women had to fit a certain role, which didn’t involve solving the great questions of life but were forced to take care of the husband and children. We often speak of the Middle ages as the dark ages, but perhaps we should rename all of history as dark ages. It it only since the enlightenment that some light has been shed on the those among us that were always ignored and tyrannized. You are still yet in the dark my friend.

WORSTIMUS: Hilarious. Kant said the enlightenment stood for the freedom to use one’s owns intelligence. You ain’t asking a whale for rational thoughts, so why ask a woman?

BESTIMIST: You went to far with your nonsense. I know you don’t mean it and you just say it to hurt me, well it works. I won’t be able to continue this conversation with you. Actually, we shouldn’t speak about women’s issues in the first place. We are two men deciding how women were treated in history and how their future should look like? Oh no, we commit another form of male oppression.

WORSTIMUS: Another form of the natural order of life you mean.

Original source: florispol.com/women-issues/

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PuffinsAreFicticious · 19/10/2014 23:38

Basket weaving is good too. If you look in other parts of MN you'll find something much more to your tastes I'm sure.