DS has started saying dodgy things...

[messyisthenewtidy]

Ever since he started a new school he's been coming out with stuff like "women aren't funny" , "girls shouldn't roll up their skirts if they don't want the boys to make comments", plus we had a chat about videogames and violence because someone in his class had made a comment about enjoying finding women and stabbing them (in the game) . When I said that was wrong he said "there's nothing wrong, it's just a game".

Every time I tackle it and talk about the complexities behind each issue I feel like I'm lecturing and we get into an argument. I feel like he's looking at the way the world is set up and coming to the conclusion that men are better. I'm not sure how to tackle these things without him thinking that I'm attacking men. Any ideas? He's 13.

[grimbletart]

I would ask him why he says the things he says, why he believes them. No need to be horrible, just gently insistent that he gives you reasons. Hopefully he will eventually see that he is just parroting the general rubbish that is around as he won't be able to provide any logical answers (as there aren't any logical answers).

[AcrossthePond55]

I like that T shirt.

I see what solid is saying. I remember (semi-deliberately) enraging my "America, love it or leave it" DF with my anti-VN war rhetoric when I was a teen.

But even so, I think your DS needs to understand that what he is saying is not acceptable and hurtful to you, personally, as a woman.

[slug]

Buy him this tshirt

[Zazzles007]

The other thing is that children model themselves on the same sex parent or if that parent is not around, the major same sex role model. May I ask what his father is like?

[messyisthenewtidy]

Solid, I think you have a point. At least I hope he is just exploring and that he doesn't really mean those things.

[SolidGoldBrass]

How is he behaving? I think there comes a stage with a lot of teenagers when they will say things which outrage their parents' values just because they are exploring the concept of having different ideas to their parents and 'saying the unsayable' becomes exciting.

[Littlebluebutterflies]

I would consider speaking to the school I think. If these attitudes are pervasive, I wonder how it must feel to be a female pupil at that school...

[SevenZarkSeven]

I didn't know that 13yo boys knew terms like "feminazi" I find that totally bizarre!

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

It's easy to come across these attitudes on the internet, that's probably where this stuff is coming from.

Would he find it ok if a white person tried to find and kill every black character in a game too?

[gamescompendium]

If anyone called me a Feminazi I'd be tempted to invoke Godwin's Law. More seriously he needs reminding that comparing a political movement that campaigns for equality with a political movement that killed millions of people based on their ethnic origin, religion, political views, sexuality, mental or physical disability is, frankly, nonsensical and he clearly needs to learn more about the Holocaust (as well as feminism) because not only is it insulting to feminists it's incredibly disrespectful of the people who were the victims of the Nazis.

[FuckOffFerret]

• I think it's just another way of saying "feminists go too far" and it's become quite popular lately

[FuckOffFerret]

I don't think most teenagers (and even a lot of adults) would equate feminazi with hate speech. It absolutely is if you think about it but as it is frequently used on the internet by people who seem otherwise normal. It definitely needs picking up but I am just saying I am sure he doesn't realize how shitty it really is. I'm much more concerned about the stabbing women comments

[Sabrinnnnnnnna]

I wouldn't tolerate 'feminazi' either - that is, to me, way more shocking than the stabbing thing and 'girls aren't funny'. The word feminazi is hatespeak in my eyes - hatespeak against women who demand full human rights.

I'd be seriously worried about who he was hanging around with if he brought such language home. My son is 12 and afaik, has never come across such words.

[AcrossthePond55]

Momagain has a good point about the 'nice kids' at school not being the first to befriend the new kid. That was our experience, too, when we moved to a new area. The 'nice kids' seem to stand back and watch the new kid to see if they'd fit in with their group whilst the 'not so nice' kids seem to jump right in and are eager to make the new kid part of their group. It's hard to resist for any kid, they just want to have friends. There were a couple of new friendships that DS1 formed at his new school that we had to actively discourage. Luckily, sports led to new friendships.

Feminazi?!? I wasn't aware that Rush Limbaugh had contaminated British shores with his particular brand of fuckwittery!

[MaryMotherOfCheeses]

I'd be furious about the use of feminazi.

I don't tolerate vile language from a child and that would be part of it, for me.

[Gina111]

His need to make friends could be a big factor and almost certainly the things he has been saying have originated from his peers. It sounds very difficult for you. Maybe step back and let others gently challenge?

[messyisthenewtidy]

To be fair, I don't think DS would ever say the stabby thing himself but it was the way he rolled his eyes and couldn't see the problem. I do worry though, because he's never been a popular kid as he has special needs and is so desperate to make friends that he might be easily swayed.

I feel like I've brought him with such a pacifist and feminist perspective that he's suddenly rebelling and pushing my boundaries. He even used the word "feminazi"! Jeez I never realised how silencing that word was - because you're caught between answering back and actually proving them right or shutting up to prove them wrong. Double bind.

[Gina111]

Making the school aware of your concerns will be important however it may be difficult to judge the enthusiasm and quality of the response.

Are other parents aware of similar issues? If so maybe a group approach would be more effective.

Has the school always been co-ed? Equal numbers of girls and boys? Many schools are changing from all boys to co-ed and that can unmask significant problems.

Is there any unconscious sexism at home from family members? It may be difficult to spot as considered normal.

Challenging the sexist remarks made by your son will be very important however it will be a balance between enlightening him and avoiding coming across as a broken record so perhaps choose clear examples (the desire to stab virtual women sounds like a good one to explore) and perhaps mobilise other members of the family so it is not always you having to do the challenging.

[Momagain1]

In my experience (11 schools) it is almost never the nice kids who are welcoming to new kids, it is almost always the kids on the margins. If you are lucky, it is a nice, but awkward kid who isnt popular. If you are unlucky, it is a kid who has issues of varying scariness, that you can never be sure is the cause or result of their marginality.

See that he has other friend-making resources such as sports, church, volunteering, scouts, special interest classes and clubs. Speaking to the school might help them find him and involve him in groups other than the group who has taken him in. And what about the men in his life? Are his dad, uncles, grandads etc.useful as counterexamples of how men think?

My cousin got his son's reading this: www.artofmanliness.com/
his goal was just to get his older teen to give a flip about dressing like an adult, but overall, there seems to be a lot of advice on how to be a modern man.

[ClashCityRocker]

Not going to help much but I recall in my psych degree that the range of emotions recognised by children can narrow in teenage years and empathy is one of the first emotions to disappear. They do eventually get it back, but no reason for you not to keep reminding him of it.

I think that's a really interesting point. I remember some of the things me and my closest friend as a teenager/young adult used to not give two hoots about doing when we were younger - such as smashing a prostitutes head in a car door repeatedly on GTA...nowadays, I think it's horrific and can't believe there is allowed to be such 'role play'.

OP, continue challenging him on his behaviour and providing a good role model. I just wanted to make the point that it isn't just teenage boys. It's girls as well, which is sad.

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

I would mention something to the school and I would come down on it like a ton of bricks. Just tell hem he can leave his small minded prejudice at the door.

[Purpleflamingos]

Not going to help much but I recall in my psych degree that the range of emotions recognised by children can narrow in teenage years and empathy is one of the first emotions to disappear. They do eventually get it back, but no reason for you not to keep reminding him of it.

[FuckOffFerret]

That would all really upset me :( Luckily my boys are still young so not a worry yet.

"What would you think if someone did that/felt that way about (favorite girl cousin)?

I'm not sure if I agree with ATP55s post though, but I see where they are going. Rather than having your son identifying women with a family member of his I think it is important he identify with the women as people in their own right.

Go through the statistics with your son about how 90% of murder and 98% of sexual violence is perpetrated by men. And is how would he feel if he were the "second sex" and that was a genuine worry for him. Would he see it as just a game then? If he went out to play football with his male friends and one of them found him sexually attractive, would it be OK if they made inappropriate advances or comments about him because he had his shirt off? Women really do get sexually assaulted and comments all lead up to people thinking it is Ok. He needs to understand that.