looking at bike sizes today

[WoTmania]

and noticed this not sure quite what to make of it. Maybe women's bikes need to be differentiated from 'real' bikes?

[Takver]

I do take your point, OP, but I think that maybe it is a bit of an odd one, in that you probably do genuinely get unisex bikes (which most people will choose) and women's bikes (which shortarses like me will choose).

I think younger women just come out taller & with a longer reach these days, so don't need a specifically sized frame. Similarly, not many men cycle in skirts, so step through frames are probably a women only zone, whereas plenty of women cycle in trousers/shorts . . .

[wol1968]

I once had a bike that was apparently the right frame size for my height but wasn't a women's bike. Big mistake. The saddle and handlebars were too far apart and at the wrong angle so I had to crouch forward all the time when I was trying to ride it. I couldn't lift a hand to signal because I couldn't steer the bike at all with one hand and kept veering off and falling over. I'm not a particularly good rider but I haven't had any problems with my current women's bike.

[onceuponatimeintheeast]

Re. football, I've played a lot of mixed 5-a-side football which is a fantastic game - because the court is too small for top speed to matter, and it's all about short, accurate passes, movement off the ball and positional play (and tactical nous) it's a fabulous mixed game.

For 11-a-side (used to play women's Sunday League), absolute speed over, say, 40m, and the distance you can kick the ball (specially in the amateur game which is very much crappy, long-ball-over-the-top) really matter, and that means at an amateur level, relatively few women can hold their own in a mixed game (NB, there is a big nurture/nature question here - I'd think that if more women started to play as children and had the huge number of hours of practise in childhood that most men who keep playing into adulthood have clocked up, things would be a lot more even. One of my closest friends, who played enormous amounts as a child, certainly can - but then, she used to play Sunday league at a level about 4 leagues above me).

Totally agree though that it gives me the rage to see "bikes" and "women's bikes" on websites. Not the fact that one might want to differentiate frame size and proportion by sex (I am 5'3"), but why not have "men's bikes" and "women's bikes"?

[Lovecat]

I've watched mixed football in America. They have a no-tackle rule, which is ostensibly there to 'protect' the women who play.

It was great! Really interesting and skillful and very fast play. I don't know why it isn't more widely played in the UK.

[Keepithidden]

But its not all about power and speed, skill is more important IMO.

[caroldecker]

at the top level, men are faster and stronger than women - this means that current mainstream sport favours men.
Sports such as gymnastics, which favour balance and flexibility would favour women.

[Keepithidden]

Why are the games so different? The rules are the same surely?

[YoureAnIdiotGoodNewsImTakingOv]

Mixed gender football would never work. The games are completely different.

I'd be upset if they referred to the "Mens world cup", too. Like it was for men.

[Keepithidden]

Lemon - There do seem to be a lot more compact, rather than step through, frames on the market. I've also seen a few smaller riders using 24" wheel bikes to get around the size issue. They look like they should work on a normal carrier, but don't quote me on that!

Carol - I think you could be right in limited cases, but surely most sports combine enough skill/strength to be able to play to the limits of a range of individuals and therefore genders? Football I think is one that could be a level playing field. Not sure about racket sports, but could be interesting to try. Snooker, curling, golf, etc. and those kinds there really should be no separation.

I think the big difference is funding, if that were equal then I can't see any significant reason that would prevent women competing with men in most sports.

[caroldecker]

keepithidden most sports were designed by men so suit average male strengths - the best players would be men, so there would not be any women playing at the top level.
Horsey events do not have this issue and the men and women compete together and against each other.

[Lemonsole]

I do resent the fact that my step-through frame screws up the carrier. However, my short-arse legs couldn't cycle without it!

The problem is the car carriers that assume all bikes have a crossbar, which even a lot of me find problematic if not blessed with long legs.

[unlucky83]

I think Evan's have done that because women will (and can) buy 'normal' men's bikes - whereas I doubt men would buy women's...
And at least it isn't 'ladies' bikes...
(Pissed me off looking for a new bike - most of the 'mens' bikes were darker colours - a lot of the women's bikes - so better seats and frames for the female form - were pale (show all the dirt) colours - white and pink etc ...reduced my choice
and also drop cross bar bikes are a pain to fit onto some cycle racks...I was seriously thinking about getting a men's bike...got a women's from the bike recycling centre in the end - nice sensible dark colour)

[Keepithidden]

Morris, I'm afraid I agree with Chunky.

Although personally I see no reason why men and women cannot play the majority of sports together anyway. In which case most of this argument would be moot.

[ChunkyPickle]

Yes, I'm a one-woman Argos boycott since I looked in their catalogue at bike helmets and they were all 'cycling helmet - boys' and 'cycling helmet - girls' rather than 'cycling helmet - pink' or 'cycling helmet - red'

As to the World Cup argument - just because historically only men got to do these things, so they are the ones with the long-standing championships doesn't mean that now, in 20fucking14 they still get to say that theirs is the only 'proper' one.

[MorrisZapp]

I don't think the argument applies to most major sporting fixtures which started as men's events.

The world cup is the world cup. Any other event like youth or womens events is not the world cup.

I totally agree about the bikes though.

[DrinkFeckArseGirls]

Why don't you drop an email to Evans OP? The sizes are understandable imo but the fact that there is no ''men's' bikes is pissing me off.

[WoTmania]

And yes, point it out or complain and you get told that there are 'more important' things to worry about and accused of being over sensitive and wanting to find things to be upset about.

[WoTmania]

yes, that's it exactly Visit you have the standard and then you have the women's.

[Helpys]

Got it.
Of course. Men's and women's not standard and deviation from the norm
The football example is good.

[Virgolia]

It should definitely say 'mens' 'womens' and then 'childrens'. The place I used to work has that on their website. We don't like Evans

[DoItTooJulia]

I think it's one of those things that's so endemic we often don't notice or kick up a fuss.

Sometimes, there is the need to state the gender the product is aimed at, but it's always, as you point out, product x and women's product y. Which just reinforces the notion that women are an afterthought, or an appendix, or a special case.

The thing that really gets my goat about it, is, if we complain or kick up a fuss, we are labelled militant/rabid/zealous feminists. A minority with an axe to grind, finding problems where there aren't any so we can dismiss them. Grr.

[AMumInScotland]

Maybe women's bikes need to be differentiated from 'real' bikes?

More than that...

Women have to be differentiated from real people.

[Keepithidden]

Its like football and womens football.

And pretty much every other sport for that matter.