Warwick University rowing club women's team calendar

[duchesse]

Are they being ironic?

Do you know what would be great, rather than these circular arguments? Get one of the rowers on here, and people could question them directly. Far more interesting than others making assumptions about their motives. I'd also love to see a direct conversation between the rowers and those who object to the calendar.

But that is the difficult bit, isn't it? Some people see this as objectification, and some do not. And if the participants don't see it, then it will not stop. And other than talking to the participants, and trying to convince them with the logic of your argument, you cannot stop it.

And now I am wondering about women who put themselves 'on display' in other walks of life. What about women who go out socially displaying copious amounts of flesh? Granted, they are not naked, but legs, bums and tits are almost out. They dress how they want, to please themselves, as they should. Presumably they are happy with a certain level of admiring glances and a certain level of (mostly) male attention. Are short skirts and tight tops on a Saturday night also adding to the problem? Are these women aware of how they may be adding to a problem in society?? How does it differ from the calendar? And if so, should this be (voluntarily) curtailed until the prevailing prejudices in our society have disappeared?

(disclaimer: this is about women being able to dress how they want, free from harassment. It is not telling them they are asking for it or other such shite)

And I am also aware that any harassment that women experience due to the way they dress is a problem owned by the harasser, not the women themselves, and the harasser should fix their own behaviour. Just so we are clear on that.

Good Point Phasers

Both of 'em...

Try again.

Pointless. I bought my wife a firemen calender one year because she saw me notice her looking at the bums of three firemen when we were having lunch one day. I think anyone who considers there is a particular difference in the calender I bought Vs the one this thread talks about would like to avoid reality.

It would perhaps be interesting to ask whether the Warwick rowers had considered that particular factor in making their choice. If they could manage not to be defensive and feel they were being attacked by prudish, bra burning feminists, of course. Which they aren't. Not here, anyway.

Yes I agree.

It also hasn't escaped my notice that the DM has, yet again evoked the straw-feminist in their article - once again trying to pitch women against women -it's their second favourite past-time (the first being vilifying the poor).

Whilst other posters like Buffy and Sabrina make excellent points on this thread, I can't stop thinking about lib asking if I realise how I am marginalised by my petiteness! I can't help it if my body got to 5' 3 3/4" and stopped!

Agreed, Buffy. Which is where I get a bit confused. Surely it is the right of the female rowers to release the calendar, just as it is for the male rowers. That is not the problem. The problem - at least for feminists - is men's reaction. So, wouldn't you advocate changing society's attitude, rather than having the rowers curtail their actions? Otherwise, why not tell women not to glam up to much on a Saturday night? That is a conflict for me.

Phaser - what is the men's reaction?

I am referring to the feminist perception of male reaction - lust, objectification, dehumanising etc etc. If that is the problem, then that is what needs fixing. That was my point.

That is your male stereotype. This is used to back up the theory.

This sounds familiar...

Buffy - no one knows your reality. But you assume you know the reality of the men's response. Your theory relies on you knowing the reality of both men and women

It is nice to see healthy looking young women photographed.

I don't know if I can properly comment as I don't mind looking at naked male rugby players.

Buffy - how do you stop a photo being judged? How do you hear a photo?

So, how do we decide which situations require women to modify their behaviour, and which do not?

Phaser - that question sounds like a question religion might ask. If you want to tell people how to behave and make them dance to your drum beat then that's up to you. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

Buffy - I get your opinion and where it comes from. The sexy box comes from your perception and four others.

I think that perception comes from a religious culture. I personally don't think nakedness equals sexy.

When you see a photo of a man what is your thought process/judgements? And do you think these judgements affect your behaviour?