This Morning

[blackcurrantjan]

Hi all, it's my first time posting in this section and I'm not sure if I'm overeacting about this. This morning on 'This Morning' there was a woman on talking about having a very difficut birth which contibuted to her having pnd. The whole focus of the story was centred on how she didn't feel like having sex for fourteen months afterwards and how hard this would have been on her DH.

I understand that it was a relevant part of the story, but instead of focusing on how the lack of intimacy affected their relationship for both of them, Ruth Langsford, who I usually like, took the slant of her 'wifely duties' being neglected. She actually said something along the lines of "After adusting to becoming a mother you have to return to being a wife again". i.e. being a wife = providing your DH with sex And "Did you worry he would start to look elsewhere?". The women then went on to say that after having her second dc she lost control of her bladder meaning she leaked urine constantly before having operation to correct it. Ruth again brought up the point of 'no sex' saying, "Your DH probably thought "here we go again!" in a roll your eyes kind of manner. I felt more appropriate questions would have been "Is this a common probem?, hw did you manage; pads etc? It must have been hard for your DH to see you suffer like this ?"

I suffered from PND myself and I can only imagine how difficult it would be care for a new baby while having no control over your bladder, it made me really mad that the whole conversation focused around her poor DH not being able to have sex with her. Would love to here your thoughts on this... maybe I am looking too much into it but it scares me to think if I hadn't been reading the F/WR boards I may not have even noticed what a strange angle the story was being told from. (apologies for enormous post)

[Darkesteyes]

Thankyou for your lovely comments blackcurrant. Im very touched

[blackcurrantjan]

Thank you Darkest
Your story is really moving and thought provoking. I agree completely that women are always blamed for the lack of sex in a relationship. If a woman doesn't want to have sex with her DH for whatever reason; traumatic birth etc. like on This Morning her DH's needs are always the biggest concern. Like your article says if a man is not interested in sex it is assumed his DW must not be doing enough to arouse him. Her needs are not even condsidered, because of course sex isn't something women need, it's something they provide .Its either "what is wrong with her that she won't have sex with her husband or what is wrong with her that makes her husband not want to have sex with her.

[Darkesteyes]

www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_4384442/scarlet/

[Darkesteyes]

blackcurrant a few years ago there was a mag called Scarlet. it was discontinued in 2010.

it was a forward thinking magazine aimed at women. It had a middle section called Cliterature which was full of erotic short stories.
it was cancelled by the "male suits" upstairs (i could have got this slightly wrong but im sure i remember reading the reasons for it on the Guardian site) but im sure i remember them saying it was being cancelled because it wasnt selling enough copies because "women dont like that sort of thing"
There was another one called Filament which i found on fb but that ended because if i rememember rightly the lady had to self publish and it just got impossible to do because of cost.
Solid knows more about the ins and outs of the situ than me so if you see this Solid please feel free to correct me if ive got any facts wrong.

[Darkesteyes]

Thats a fab post blackcurrant. its also the reason women in my situation dont speak out because we would get ripped to shreds verbally.
I posted this to moresexdaily last year.

www.moresexdaily.com/guest_sexperts/infidelity-is-not-always-wrong-especially-when-your-spouse-hasnt-touched-you-for-years-and-he-refuses-to-go-to-counselling-one-reader-tells-her-story/


There is no way i would talk about it on a show like This Morning though even in silhouette/disguise. They have proved time and time again that they have an agenda where women are concerned.

[blackcurrantjan]

MrsClown thank you for sharing Your ex-friend's attitude is an exact example of what I am talking about. Its such a paradox (not sure if thats the right word)

'You should never marry a woman who has sex on the first date.' By that logic:

1. Presumably a man who has sex with a woman on the first date wants to have sex. But he doesn't want the woman, who he wants to have sex with, to want to have sex with him
   
   2)Why would a woman who has sex on the first date not make a suitable wife? Shock horror this woman might actually have sex because she enjoys sex !!! she is not doing it to please her partner or as a reward to a prospective partner for showing interest in her for (insert suitable amount of time)? If she has sex because she likes it she will definitely cheat
   That is the justifcation for female genital mutilation in some cultures; if a women doesn't enjoy sex she won't cheat on her husband.
   
   While we're sharing , I had an ex with a similar outlook. While we were dating I had a greater sex drive than him . He used to say I was 'always horny' which I laughed off as a joke at first, until I went on a weeks holiday with my best friend, which had already been booked before we got together, and he spent the entire time checking up on me and sending me angry jealous messages using the fact that I was apparently 'always horny' as an excuse for not thrusting me. Sorry for TMI. It was only after I ended the relationship that I thought, would he have prefered if didn't like/instigate sex?
   If only all men were like your DH.
   
   Seriously though I don't think its just men that perpetuate this attitude. I remember growing when me and my DM (who I consider farely liberal) were having 'the talk' she said "when you start having sex don't sleep around or you will get a reputation amongst men". Other women I know were told similar things. I know that my DM was only looking out for me as was anyone else's parents who said similar things, but would it not be more productive for parents to teach their sons that its normal for women to want to have sex just as its normal for them, not teach their daughters that certain behaviour gives men an impression, thereby allowing 'impressions' to exist ? if that makes sense......
   
   Also in womens magazines the 'advice' is always 'men love the chase' (as if women are prey ), 'if you have sex too soon they will loose interest'. By encouraging women to behave in a certain way to attract men they label women who don't behave in this way as 'cheap' or 'easy', and allow men to label them this way aswell. I wonder do men really 'love the chase' or is society telling them they 'love the chase' as a way of repressing women sexually?
   
   Apologies for enourmas off topic post, just thinking outloud...

[Darkesteyes]

Mrs Clown that ex friend of yours and your DHs (the bloke) sounds like a bit of a mysogynist to me.
My reply to him would have been "well its a good way to filter out blokes like you with a madonna/whore complex"

[PretzelTime]

Perhaps my previous message was a bit off-topic. I keep hearing stuff about how couples should start to have sex ASAP after child-birth. Which is stupid if they don't both want to/can.

On topic. Sounds like they didn't treat that woman with PND with any respect at all. Wifely duties - yikes, there is that Victorian attitude again.

If This Morning is turning "into a steaming pile of misogynistic, sensationalist shite", is there a way to complain and tell 'em they're being Very Unreasonable? Tv programmes' got a lot of power, they reach so many.

[AnyFucker]

saw not say

[AnyFucker]

Yes, yes !

Just seen this thread, but say the piece on Good morning yesterday

I turned off the tv in an absolute temper. God, it was fucking awful

Absolutely brainless male-appeasing pile of shite. And people really think Feminism has achieved all it can ?

ffs

[PretzelTime]

I can't imagine a new father or a couple being horny with a new born around. It's such an intense and exhausting period, the baby comes first.
But yes a horny man might find sex elsewhere if he needs it- with himself!

blackcurrant yes it's very tragic to see old Victorian attitudes to sex (like sex= man doing things to a woman who just kinda lies there) in 2013. I thought things had gotten better than that, perhaps it did, then went backwards again. I do blame porn for alot of it.

It reminds me of how there was a thread recently where some women didn't think it was sex when they came, only their husband's pleasure counted as sex [buconfused] Some didn't even know what an orgasm felt like. I'm not blaming those women at all btw, it was just sad to read.

[MrsClown1]

I am going to tell a story here and Im not sure if it will make people make assumptions about me but I wanted to illustrate how right blackcurrantjan is.

I met my DH in 2001 when we were both in our mid forties. I had known him for a few years as an acquaintance but nothing more. Anyway, he was single and so was I so I bumped into him one day and gave him my number. Anyway, he called me and came to my house when my kids were at school. After half an hour we ended up having sex. I am so sad to say that when he left I thought he would think I was cheap so would never call me again because I was a loose woman (though I didnt feel loose, I wanted it and enjoyed it!) Sorry if this is TMI!

Anyway when he called to ask me out for a meal I was surprised and told him so later on. He couldnt understand it - in his opinion he just thought, we both wanted to have sex so why should I feel bad about it! A few weeks after we were married we had some ex friends round for a meal who had also recently married. The husband proudly informed my DH that it would always be a mistake to marry a woman who had sex on the first date, his wife had kept him waiting for 6 weeks. She was obviously more virtuous than me. My DH managed to argue against him without telling him how long we waited.

Im not saying I did the wrong or right thing, it was the right thing for me. But why should people presume women dont want/need sex but men have to have it.

Sorry to go on!

[blackcurrantjan]

yes JoCh I felt it was rather insulting to her husband and men in general, painting them as some kind of horny baboons desperate to have sex with exhausted wives as soon as their discharged from hospital.

And I agree with TheDoctrine about women being seen as 'gatekeepers'. I think this is quite common in society and has been for a long time. I read an article someone posted here a while ago about the affects of pornography on men in terms of how they view women and its contributations to rape culture. It said that it caused men to view sex as something they do too women rather than something they both do together.

I'm sure that this is true but I think that sex is also and has always been seen as something men get from women rather than something they do together. I have often heard young men talk about 'getting the ride off her' etc, either their DPs/GFs or women they have had one night stands with. They do not say 'We had sex' or even 'we rode'. This attitude can not only be associated with modern men from the sexually liberated society of today, however. In the past where people were expected to wait until they married to have sex it was seen as 'wifely duties' or something women did for their husbands and this was just 'getting the ride off her' in another form.

I don't mean to generalize and I'm not suggesting all men view sex in this way but it is an attitude I have noticed in society and in the media from both men and women

[Darkesteyes]

here is the thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1720167-Strip-club

[Darkesteyes]

And then another poster has come on the same thread to say that "women dont actually like sex #EverydaySexism

[Lessthanaballpark]

This reminds me of another thread kicking about at the mo about a DH going for a lap dance while his DW was at home with the newborn. Some bright spark of a poster expressed sympathy for the DH as he was probably sexually frustrated!

[JoCheshire10]

I thought the same thing-focused on sex when I was more interested in the GPs explanation of her condition and they kept cutting her off to ask the woman about sex.

The woman herself explained that her dh was really supportive so I was gobsmacked when Ruth asked whether she was worried he'd go elsewhere! Should be the last thing on her mind if she trusts her supportive husband. Imagine she was more concerned with bonding with her baby (which she said she struggled with, with pnd) her conditions and getting through the day!! Madness-Ruth and Eamonn get on my nerves

Also 4 months abstaining after childbirth doesn't seem overly long in my view.....

[Darkesteyes]

This Morning is a load of mysogynistic right wing bullshit. The TV equivilent of Closer magazine.

[FrimFrimMcWeasel]

It sounds horrendous blackcurrant.

Doesn't sound like the woman being interviewed thought it was going to be all about how awful it was for her DH not to get a bunk up because she was selfish enough to have health issues after childbirth. Women, eh? What are they like.

[blackcurrantjan]

Yes but my point is why is that the title and the focus of the conversation when the woman clearly had so much more to say. She said after having the traumatic birth she blamed her ds and felt like she was growing away from him rather than closer to him. It was really upsetting and it sounded like the woman had a horrendous time but the interviewer just brushed past this and asked a question about sex/affect on her dh etc. And the whole coversation continued like this. She spoke about having "no control of her waterworks" after her second birth to which the interviewer replied "Your husband probably thought here we go again", as in 'no sex'.

[FrimFrimMcWeasel]

Although to be fair, I haven't watched it.

Is it introduced as "here is a woman who was terrified of sex after childbirth" or something else.

[FrimFrimMcWeasel]

Were the viewing public and the actual person being interviewed aware at the time that the piece was entitled "childbirth left me terrified of sex" or is that the title that the website people have decided to give it after the event and based on the (apparently singleminded) direction the interviewers took with it though.

Sounds to me like the woman thought she was going to talk about her medical problems subsequent to childbirth but all the interviewers were interested in was sex and telling her she should have been having it when she wasn't able/interested.

[landofsoapandglory]

The article was called Childbirth left me terrified of sex which is, probably, why it focused on sex, tbh.

[FrimFrimMcWeasel]

Sounds horrendous.

Watch something else is my advice, vote with your feet remote.