This blog is so wrong on so many levels

[showtunesgirl]

boldanddetermined.com/2012/11/29/how-to-meet-shy-girls/ Do people genuinely believe this crap?

[grumpyinthemorning]

Huh, I clearly made a mistake choosing a DP who is interested in what I have to say, treats me as an equal and encourages me to speak my mind. I should dump him and get with a controlling prick who treats me like a cross between a blow-up sex toy and a child barely out of nappies.

Oh, wait, that's what I left XP to get away from.

What a knob. I really hope nobody actually believes this shit.

[SolidGoldBrass]

I do think that teaching DDs to think 'Bwhahaha, LOSER' every time a man does something red-flaggy would be good. And also, showing DDs that we love them and value them and that they are good, worthwhile people even when/if they make mistakes - basically giving them self-esteem and reasonable boundaries. Someone who has been raised by reasonable, loving, good parents will usually have enough self esteem to be able to say 'Actually, fuck off, I won't put up with mistreatment'. Unfortunately, abusers do have a kind of radar for people who are already vulnerable and some abusers have a finely-tuned radar for the person who appears strong but has a major weak spot.

Really, the most important lesson to teach young women is it's fine to be single. You do not need a heteromonogamous relationship to make you a real person. Couplehood is not actually that much fun, and it's only worth giving up the joys of the single life for a partner who is really good-quality.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Lookee here what I've just stumbled across, apropos of evo-bollocks.

awreathonhergrave.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/feminism-and-biology/

[AnyFucker]

I second the first post of the Emotional Abuse support thread. Loads of links and resources there.

[AbigailAdams]

Pretzel Lundy Bancroft's Why does he do that is excellent. Should be required reading in schools IMO.

Also on the OP of the emotionally abusive threads in Relationships are some great resources for recognising abusers and abusive behaviour.

[AnyFucker]

This stuff should be taught in schools from about the age of 13, IMO

[PretzelTime]

There are sadly so many young women out there in need of info on red flags, and healthy relationships. I wish there was a easy way to spread the info to them.

Do you know any good articles/resources for young women (or all women really)?

[AbigailAdams]

[FloraFox]

AA very much agree. I was raised by one. My Mum cofounded our local Women's Aid (no DV in our situation though). She did tell me I'd be a shit counsellor.

[AbigailAdams]

Yes I think you are right Flora. It is about counteracting the damaging messages women receive all the time with regards relationships. Like they have to be in one. Or you need to be in a relationship to have a child, or stalking is really men being romantic (like the Rom coms tell.us) etc.

But society doesn't make it easy for us to leave. There are punishments for single women and single mothers.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Yes the article seems to me to put the onus on you to remain strong forever.

And none of us can do this. As AA says, there are times when the strongest of us will be hit by stuff and so aren't going to be able to draw on the permanent strength this article demands.

That's when awareness of what abusive behaviour is, would be so helpful.

[FloraFox]

Well I'm Scottish and thick of hide so don't worry about it Yes I can see that point. Being inclined to tell people (men and women) to GTF IRL rather than put up with shit, it seems obvious to me that that's the outcome so I read that in rather than reading in "if you don't it's your fault". I worry about girls continuing to be socialised as passive and catering to male ego. Teaching girls to be assertive not put up with shit is important but I do agree about not saying "and if you don't it's your fault". Having said that, most of the strong older women I knew when I was a child, usually did say things like that. It was harsh but their advice was still better than the alternative "stand by your man" crap that lots of other women used to say. Not saying we can't be better though and thanks for your views.

[AbigailAdams]

And another thing abusers may try one thing and find that doesn't work so try something else. They want to control you and generally have a lot of tools in their armoury.

[AbigailAdams]

Oh no I wasn't criticising you Flora at all. It is the article that has invited my criticism and annoyance!

[AbigailAdams]

OK read again and the only red flags they mention are hitting you and calling you names. And the advice to calling you names is to state that you don't want him to do that. So far so good. But any man who respects that was probably just having a bad day and not an abuser. An abuser may stop for a bit but will always start up again. It doesn't say what to do at that point. Because you will be much further down the "romance" line at that point. You may even be pregnant or have a child or be financially dependent on him. But of course there are plenty of other indicators of abusive behaviour other than name calling. Abusers can be polite!

The article states that an abuser doesn't want a woman who will report them if they assault them. Abusers who assault have the sense of entitlement that justifies the assault in their mind. They believe they are right. They also get this sense of entitlement because society allows them to do this without much recourse. They know if they hit their partner and she calls the police that they are unlikely to get more than a slap on the wrist. That is if they believe the woman. Things are getting better on that front but it is still weighted against the victim.

As Fastidia said the focus has to be on the abuser's behaviour. For a start it is impossible to remain confident and strong throughout the whole of your life. Things will knock you down. And some.of the suggestions in the article are risible. Authoratitive voice? Wtf is that? That is hugely subjective. Secondly, changing your behaviour just doesn't work with abusers. It can make your life easier but it won't ultimately change their behaviour or attitude.

[AnyFucker]

AA, I'm a Northerner too

Flora, please don't think I am criticising you. I think that drawing attention to the way these abusive men work is always a good thing

But what made me a bit uncomfortable about this article is that it says if a woman didn't do X, Y or Z means that she invited more abuse and is tantamount to victim blaming.

My own approach to red flag demonstration (which this article seemed to strangely just hold back from saying) is one strike and you are out

[FloraFox]

I didn't read it that way, which would be awful and dangerous nonsense. I thought it was more like: if he says something negative, call him on it. Then keep your guard up. If he doesn't do it again maybe it was just a one-off but if he keeps it up LTB. More about identifying them rather than changing. I'll read it again. Maybe I picked it up wrong. The idea that you can change an abuser is one of the things we should teach young women against.

[AbigailAdams]

Well it didn't come over to me that way. It seemed to be all about how the abuser will change according to your reaction to his behaviour. Which is bollocks. Dangerous bollocks at that.

I just skim read though so I'll read it properly now.

[FloraFox]

Isn't that what the article is saying though - these are the warning signs.

[AbigailAdams]

Getting our daughters to recognise red flags, Flora, I'd say.

[AbigailAdams]

I'm a northerner, what can I say AF

[colditz]

Bwahhhh ha ha ha what a dick.

[FloraFox]

Ok so some will target women with low self-esteem and some might get off on taming a strong woman. How do we help women avoid both sorts of abusers without victim blaming?

[FastidiaBlueberry]

We need to focus on the abuser's behaviour instead of that of the potential victim.

That article, part of the problem with it, is that it's wrong. I only read the first few para's because life is short, but this idea that abusers don't like "strong" women who will give their opinion - this is just incorrect. Many abusers get turned on by the idea of "taming" a strong woman. The idea that they're all looking for "shy girls" like this lunatic in the OP, is just wrong.

[FloraFox]

I'm really interested AA and AF how you think we should deal with these losers and how do we reach our daughters and young women to deal with them without being victim-blaming?