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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

OAP home allows residents to book sex workers

261 replies

Charlezee · 29/01/2013 01:43

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4767106/investigation-into-nursing-home-for-allowing-prostitutes.html

What do you think?

OP posts:
Femini1 · 30/01/2013 14:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SchroSawMargeryDaw · 30/01/2013 15:11

Completely legal in this case, doesn't make it's morally right though but at the same time these are these people's homes and they should be able to do the same as they could if they were renting a house.

However if these men are sexually harassing the staff, I would worry that these women that are being hired aren't being treated right, I cannot see someone doing the job because they like it willingly being treated badly.

JuliaScurr · 30/01/2013 17:49

anntagonist.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/rape-is-a-human-right/

If there is a human right to useh prostiturtes, there must logically be anobligation to be one.
This emphasis on 'choice' ignores reality

fluffygal · 30/01/2013 17:59

I am on placement in an over 65s care management team. We would do a mental capacity assessment. Capacity is dependent on a specific time for a specific reason, someone who doesn't have capacity to make decisions about one aspect of their life may well have capacity in another area. If deemed to have capacity and not against the home policy then it is their decision. It is their home, their right, we are not there to dictate to them, they are adults.

OneMoreChap · 30/01/2013 19:59

JuliaScurr

This emphasis on 'choice' ignores reality

How do you address the agency question?
When does someone have the right to decide what they choose to do and when not?

Can I give away a kidney?
Can I sell a kidney?
Can I have sex with another man because he wants me?
Can I take money off him for that if he's happy to pay me?

JustAHolyFool · 30/01/2013 20:02

Well, no you can't sell a kidney. Obviously. It's illegal in every country in the world (bar Iran, and I don't know if we should be taking advice on our legal system from them.)

We do not live in a world where men and women are equal. Most people are not prostitutes through choice and how anyone can use their services knowing this really baffles me.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/01/2013 20:06

Reasearch done recently by Suzanne Jenkins very strongly suggests that most prostitutes working in Britain are indeed doing so through choice.

OneMoreChap · 30/01/2013 20:08

JustAHolyFool

Excellent: for body tissue then how about?
Blood
Hair
Eggs
Sperm
Bone Marrow

What can I do with other men for pleasure or profit?

JustAHolyFool · 30/01/2013 20:12

I don't understand your post, OneMoreChap . There is a vast difference between sperm and kidneys, for starters. And there's a vast difference between paying for sperm and donating sperm.

OldLady what do you mean by choice? Is it a choice when the woman has no qualifications, 3 children with no support from the father and no family to support her? I don't call that a choice, to be honest.

OneMoreChap · 30/01/2013 20:21

JustAHolyFool

Sorry, I've obviously been a bit opaque.

JuliaScurr said This emphasis on 'choice' ignores reality

I thought reality is what is on the ground, that we experience. Prostitution is legal, and presumably someone can make a choice?

So when I asked:
When does someone have the right to decide what they choose to do and when not?

Can I give away a kidney?
Can I sell a kidney?
Can I have sex with another man because he wants me?
Can I take money off him for that if he's happy to pay me?

I was asking what I could choose to do?
Here, I can't sell bone marrow; in the US (where prostitution is generally illegal) I could.
In the Philippines, up to a few years back I could sell a kidney.

I can choose to sell myself for money; why shouldn't others be allowed that choice?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/01/2013 20:28

Dr Jenkins' work.

Justa, lots of people have few choices. I guess most people don't feel too great working for legal loan sharks either, at least an independent escort earns a damn sight more.

SPBInDisguise · 30/01/2013 20:34

Why is this in the feminism section when the consensus seems to be its ok to buy sex?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/01/2013 20:40

How could the Op anticipate the responses?

badgeroncaffeine · 30/01/2013 20:43

It is OK to buy sex from someone who is selling it. Simple as.

SPBInDisguise · 30/01/2013 20:44

Very true. Just confused I suppose. I think paying for sex is a bad thing in general.

badgeroncaffeine · 30/01/2013 20:48

You are confused because you are used to seeing the same old nonsense trotted out...
And generalising is not sensible. In this case it certainly isn't a "bad thing" at all.

SPBInDisguise · 30/01/2013 20:49

Oh well thanks for clearing that up for me.

badgeroncaffeine · 30/01/2013 20:51

Not a problem, I'm always happy to help.

JustAHolyFool · 30/01/2013 20:51

Oh well, that's ok then, if they choose to do it. It's fine to exploit someone as long as they have no other options.

OneMoreChap I think you're really talking about too many issues in one. I don't think it's ok to sell kidneys or bone marrow or anything else. I also don't think it's ok to sell sex. Yes, some women do it out of "choice" but it's a very narrowly defined choice: I notice that none of my university-educated friends are hanging around in red light districts getting paid to have sex.

It is very easy to say "oh but how is sex different to selling anything else?" Well if it's the same, why don't people who have real choice to do it? Maybe when we get to a point where men and women are actually equal and where men don't abuse women on such a regular basis, sexwork will become a legitimate way to make money.

If people are so happy to defend it, I wonder if they'd be happy if their daughter, wife, aunt, mother or cousin was doing it?

fluffygal · 30/01/2013 21:00

God I never said I agree with it, but there's plenty of people I see every day who make unwise choices. I do not have the right to judge or the power to tell them what to do.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/01/2013 21:03

Do you spend a lot of time hanging out in RLDs, looking for your old pals? Only the main sex-for-sale scene these days is online.

JustAHolyFool · 30/01/2013 21:14

What's your point, OldLady ? You can nitpick, if you like, but we both know that you don't get a hell of a lot of people with choices in prostitution.

fluffy I don't judge prostitutes, but I do judge the men who buy sex from them.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/01/2013 21:19

Did you read Dr Jenkins' work? The people she spoke to were quite insistent that they had chosen to do it, and most had no immediate plans to stop. Since these were all grown adults, I'm inclined to think that if that's what they choose to do, and it is after all legal, it's none of my business.

JustAHolyFool · 30/01/2013 21:25

I'm not saying they CAN'T choose to do that. They can and I don't judge them for it. Yes, they are grown adults, I don't think anyone's disputing that. I can see why it is a choice for some women.

My problem doesn't lie with the women. It lies with the men who choose to exploit women.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/01/2013 21:30

But the men are simpley responding to an offer of sex for sale, by an adult, with full bodily-autonomy. And they pay well for it. I can't see that earning/paying probably £50 for 30 minutes, £100 an hour is exploitation.