Abortion counselling to be offered 'independently' thanks to Nadine Dorries

[VictorGollancz]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/28/anti-abortion-lobby-reforms

So the door is now officially open for pro-life Christian groups to 'counsel' women, and it is tantamount to forcing women to wait before they can undergo a LEGAL medical procedure. I'm so angry I'm not sure I can string together a coherent sentence. This is a warning, a very big warning, that we must never think for one moment that our reproductive rights are assured.

From that article:

Dorries said she did not know how the Right to Know campaign was being funded, claiming that it represented "hundreds" of people and was run by a lobbyist. She would not reveal the lobbyist's name, or the other organisations the lobbyist represents but did say that she was receiving advice from Dr Peter Saunders, the head of the Christian Medical Fellowship.

Saunders led the Alive and Kicking campaign, a group of anti-abortion groups including the ProLife Alliance, which campaigned for an immediate cut in the abortion time limit, prohibition of abortion for "social convenience" and a cooling-off period.



Even the most cursory google reveals Dorries to be an out-and-out liar. If this campaign was based on facts, that would be one thing - but the fact that this woman has twisted every piece of information she can get her hands on in order to push this through Parliament makes it a disgrace. I'm so, so angry about this.

[canary1]

Was become quite incensed about this- so happy to see this is out of date! Was worried forced- birthers had gained power 🙄

[BoreOfWhabylon]

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

THIS THREAD IS TEN YEARS OLD

[Wheresmywoolyjumpers]

@forkful - For info, this is what the BACP actually said.

1. In response to an enquiry, BACP issued a statement saying it believes counselling should be an independent accountable and ethical process free from ideological bias and manipulation. This is in accordance with our Ethical Framework (see www.bacp.co.uk/ethical_framework/) which gives a paramount place to the needs and values of clients.

1. Our statement in its entirety reads as follows:

“BACP believes that all women (and their partners if required) considering terminating a pregnancy should be offered free, independent, unbiased and ethical abortion counselling at any point, supplied by trained counsellors. Counselling can help women (and their partners if required), reflect on and understand the often complicated feelings surrounding termination, and can aid decision-making. Counselling can also help women come to terms with the psychological consequences of the decisions they make. BACP respects that the laws governing termination of pregnancy in Northern Ireland are laid down in statute and fully understands that counsellors who work in this field in Northern Ireland should pay due regard to the document: Guidance on the Termination of Pregnancy: The Law and Clinical Practice in Northern Ireland”.

1. Since 2002, in accordance with our key message that counselling ought to be part of the nation’s healthcare, BACP has been calling for a better pre- and post-abortion counselling service. See endnote [i].

1. BACP has never suggested or implied that organisations like BPAS and Marie Stopes International should stop providing abortion advice or any of their other ancillary services. Counselling and advice-giving are in any case separate activities – “counsellors never give advice”.

1. BACP has no involvement with the organisation CARE CONFIDENTIAL and we confirm that it is not a member of our Association.

1. BACP is an acronym for THE BRITISH ASSOCIATION FOR COUNSELLING AND PSYCHOTHERAPY and not as stated in Ms Dorries’ press release. We currently have nearly 36,000 members – not 32,000 as stated in Ms Dorries’ press release.

Phillip Hodson

BACP Fellow and Media Consultant

[N4ish]

This thread really needs a zombie warning!

[SpindlesWhorl]

Have the zombie warnings disappeared?

[SpindlesWhorl]

I wish posters would stop using the term 'pro-life' for people who are anti-abortion. It's really offensive to women who have had a termination for whatever reason to suggest that they are somehow not 'for life', which is what this rhetoric does.

Nearly one in two women in the UK will have an (early) abortion, and the majority of them will be or will become mothers. They are very much for life.

But they also have to inhabit the tough material reality of their lives.

[Rightsraptor]

Posie Parker posting on it should be a bit of a clue to its age - she was ejected from here some time back.

[CompleteGinasaur]

And I didn't notice either, when it came up bumped, so I've just read through from the beginning. Getting angrier and angrier, and wondering why no-one else seemed to be bothered about this - I mean, I know the Rowling doxxing is important, but surely... oh. Oops. And I suppose thank Goddess for that, but I do feel a complete idiot!

[highame]

[AssassinatedBeauty]

👻🧟‍♀️💀

[highame]

Beware the rise of the Spectre thread < the nearest I can get to a ghost

[AssassinatedBeauty]

@HeartbrokenInd who are you replying to? This thread is 10 years old!

[HeartbrokenInd]

Your rationale and thinking is so flawed and scary. What you are saying puts so many women at risk.

If you say only the minority of women suffer negatively from this, then why not put a mandatory safeguard in place. After all only a minority of abortions are for rape or medical issues yet we make abortion legal for their sake?

For women who are sure of their choice a small “hurdle” as you put it would be no problem for them and they would proceed with the abortion. Surely women accessing safe abortion would like to endure that others are not left with life long psychological scars and regret all for the sake of an impartial counselling service?

Your attitude is selfish and based on a limited understanding of pregnancy and women’s varied reactions to it.

[VictorGollancz]

Interesting account of a day in an abortion clinic in the Guardian

Interview with head of bpas, Ann Furedi, also from the Guardian

[ThePosieParker]

Perhaps if this happens we should launch a campaign, a silent mystery shopper experience of our own.

[ThePosieParker]

What's wrong with Marie Stopes and BPAS? Why can't we trust women to seek help if they need it and if they don't, they don't.

Just curious what advice they would give that wasn't independent? Is anyone suggesting that they insist that abortion is the only option or something? (genuine question)

I keep returning to the old saying 'if it ain't broke why fix it?' Do we desperately need more children? Have we suddenly eradicated poverty? We now celebrate the single mother? Are no pregnancies resulting from rape or coercion? Or is the state becoming the moral guide to our women? The same state that doesn't put enough money to keep the elderly warm through winter, the disabled bus services and other vital resources to enable them to have a full life, that very same State that allows children to live below the poverty line, children carry guns, drug addicted parents to hang onto their children, what fucking moral high ground can the State stand upon here?

And if it is not to sit in moral judgment why are they changing anything about abortion practice? I just can't work it out.

The only thing I can come up with is that Dorries fancies herself as a British Palin? Well Dorries there ain't no snow, there's no tea party and you're not a MILF.






I copied this from the AIBU....

[VictorGollancz]

Hear hear, GrannyV.

[garlicnutter]

Can hardly wait until I get Bill Wiggins's "caringly" meaningless reply in about two months' time. I might continue and chew his ear off over this one. It's fundamental to women's independence.

Unfortunately, since it's been dressed up as 'counselling', it appeals to the reason of people who haven't bothered to look at what it actually means in this scenario.

[GrannyV]

Whatever happens when the health and social care bill is debated we can now be very sure that there are a number of MPs, lobbyists and political advisers who want to make abortion really difficult to obtain - and perhaps impossible.

So, this is a wake-up call. If you were born from the late 1960s onwards you grew up in a world where reliable contraception and safe termination of pregmancy were easily accessible. That has made it possible for women to control their lives in a way never achievable before. If you don't want to lose that power and you want to protect your children - don't relax - keep your eye on things! We don't want to go back to the time - not so long ago - when women were permanently damaged and did die as a result of "amateur" abortions. If you want children there will be a right time for you to have them and you will never regret it.

[PettyCoat]

Do we still need to worry about the points in the last two paragraphs, or am I being paranoid? (or maybe the Guardian is being paranoid!):

"If the amendment is selected next week, it will be a free vote for MPs, as is the tradition with the most controversial "matters of conscience". But coalition MPs will be steered to vote against it. It is understood that the prime minister, the health ministers and other senior members of the government will vote against. Labour has adopted a similar position.

But a combination of the unpredictable intake of new Tory MPs, split between social conservatives and modernisers, the number of Roman Catholic Labour MPs, and the high degree of nuance of the amendment make it extremely unclear which way the vote will go."

[VictorGollancz]

Fuck yeah! It's been very heartening to see the reaction to this - even the AIBU thread has been filled with posters stating their objections.

[garlicnutter]

Hurrah!!!! Good news, thanks :)

[NotQuiteSoDesperate]

U-turn from the government:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/31/downing-street-uturn-abortion-proposals

[GrannyV]

Hope I can join in - I'm still a mum although I started a long time ago! I also have written to my MP about this as I think it could set back women's rights by a generation. Just over 40 years ago contraceptive advice was only available to married women and abortion was illegal. This was a serious threat to women's health and limited their ability to be socially, sexually and economically independent. I'm not going to be pregnant ever again but I have daughters and grandaughters who may be. I'll fight to the end to keep them safe.