Rape fantasy

[iMemoo]

I nearly name changed for this but decided not to be brave (grin)

Reading other threads on here got me wondering about this. Is it really true that quite a lot of woman sexually fantasise about being raped and if so why do they?

Being totally truthful (and this is why I nearly name changed) I have fantasised about being raped, and Dh often takes a very dominant role in the bedroom. But of course I don't really want to be raped nor do I want to be dominated by my husband. In fact in my marriage I am probably the more dominant.

I feel ashamed of my rape fantasies. In real life I find the idea abhorrent. I also feel like I am betraying every woman who has been raped and that I'm somehow belittling their feelings.

I'm really struggling to reconcile my sexual fantasies with my real life beliefs.

[BerstieSpotts]

I like the idea of dominance mainly because it means I get to lie there and not put much effort in

[BerstieSpotts]

But I must agree, I've never had anything nearly approaching a rape fantasy. I don't know that "common" equals "most" though - it can just mean a sizeable minority.

[garlicvampire]

I used to have some fantasies that I thought were the product of a warped mind, until I found out they're actually staple rudefilm fodder. I'm not wanting to ferret around my unconscious mind looking for the original source but do want to share this: In the spirit of experimentation, I've tried revisiting those fantasies to see what happened. What actually does happen is that I start ranting (in fantasy) about how degrading to women it all is, and why the other participants should think about what they're doing!

On this basis, I'm in favour of a re-education programme for women. No clue as to how you'd go about that, though.

[NeoFaust]

My girlfriend has asked me several times to take the role of a man who kidnapped her and forced her into sexual servitude. She requests dominant scenarios and is the second girl in my life to request breath-games. I should clarify that none of these were at my suggestion or instigation - while my tastes run to dominant sex I am extremely careful that my lovers do not feel pressure to conform to my own sexuality.

She also wants me to jump out and surprise her when she is otherwise unprepared for sex, but when she is in the mood for sex. That one she's not going to get, because I can see it going horribly wrong too easily.

There's nothing wrong with any fantasy as long as it stays either within your own head or between consenting adults.

[garlicvampire]

That one she's not going to get, because I can see it going horribly wrong too easily.

Very wise!

[LurcioLovesFrankie]

This is an interesting thread. I do think Annie and SGB nailed it - it's about the idea that women are conditioned to think of themselves as gatekeepers, to think of sex as dirty, to think that "nice girls don't give it away". So for some women, the only way to fantasize about wild abandoned sex is to have "rape" or more accurately ravishment (if that's a word) fantasies. The reason this doesn't do it for me is I can't get myself out of the man's head in the scenario - if it's rape, then he's an evil tosser, and evil tossers can't be heroes, therefore figure as the sexually attractive hero in my fantasy life (if that makes sense). But as women we're taught to go in for a lot of cognitive dissonance, so I suspect in rape fantasies that's part of what's going on - the woman not only is not fantasizing about a real rape, but also is carefully not thinking about what the scenario would mean about the mindset of the male protagonist.

(Which isn't to say I don't have fantasies in which circumstances mean that both of you know you shouldn't, but the sexual urge is so great that you both get mutually carried away, knowing the other one wants it every bit as much as you do... in fact, as I have mentioned before in FWR, my guilty not-so-secret passtime is reading and writing erotic fanfic ).

[DadWasHere]

"I have seen discussions on 'rape fantasies' which don't even address the central point that the women aren't fantasising about rape!"

So what's it about then, what's the hook- a women simply surrendering herself to someone? I don't think its anywhere near that clean, I had a girlfriend (briefly, thank god) who was far too keen on having her mind changed about wanting sex, that was the hook that got her off. No means no- except it excites me if you work hard to change my mind. It confused me initially and later pissed me off and repelled me.

[LurcioLovesFrankie]

Dad - sorry to hear that, that would seriously creep me out (I can't quite imagine what the analogous situation for a woman to be in would be, but I hope I've got enough empathy to be able to see that that would be very upsetting). But, at the same time (and I hope this doesn't come across as minimising - it really isn't meant to be) - it was you, a man she was in a relationship, she was explore these fantasies with, and they culminated in a "yes" - albeit a very twisted, screwed up one.

But I think you're right that it's not as clear cut as all that. I really don't understand it. Every so often I come across a story written by someone like your ex, and I hit the back button pretty damn fast, while thinking "WTAF?" to myself. There are some women who aren't just fantasizing about the Byronic hero they've wanted all along but can't say yes to without (in their own confused assessment of the situation) slut shaming themselves. But there seem to be asmall minority who genuinely seem to get their kicks out of non-consensual sex, and it is really, really disturbing (it had crossed my mind to wonder if these particular stories were written by hairy handed gentlemen trolling what they know to be a predominantly female environment, but your experience makes me think they may actually sometimes be written by women).

[TheDoctrineOfSpike]

I would read that fantasy as "prove how desirable I am, prove you really want me" - but I could be wrong.

[PenguinsDontEatPancakes]

DadWasHere - My point about there being no such thing as a rape fantasy linked back to my earlier post on the same point.

In a rape, a woman is not consenting to sex. She does not want it to be happening to her.

In a fantasy, a woman wants what is happening to be happening. She may be fantasising about being overpowered, or ravaged, or whatever else. She may fantasise about a man 'forcing her to change her mind'. But ultimately, in her fantasy she wants it to be happening. She is not being penetrated against her will. Even if in her fantasy she is struggling and being held down, in her own mind she is getting a kick out of what is happening. Ergo she isn't fantasising about rape, but about some other form of dominant role playing or similar.

[garlicvampire]

Even if in her fantasy she is struggling and being held down, in her own mind she is getting a kick out of what is happening.

Apologies for introducing a slightly darker tone to this. In real rape situations, it's not uncommon for a female victim to lubricate, and some even orgasm. This doesn't mean she wants it or is enjoying it. They are physiological reactions. (Women can have a physical orgasm without feeling pleasure: something many have experienced, but is rarely acknowledged.) I'm wondering whether the neurological pathways that trigger this - obviously ancient ones, probably pre-mammalian - actually generate the fantasy in some way. If so, it could be a means of aligning the obsolete pattern with newer and more conscious ones: an integration, if you like, of our 'new' brain's expectations of pleasurable, consensual sex, with the old brain's expectation of unchosen penetration.

As far as I'm aware this hasn't been researched; I doubt it could even be done. I'm just going with an idea.

[PenguinsDontEatPancakes]

Yes, that is pretty dark isn't in garlic, though it's an interesting point.

My point was a lot more basic - that if it's a 'fantasy' you are actively getting off on the idea, and therefore inherently consenting. If you weren't, you wouldn't be having a 'fantasy' you'd be having some form of waking nightmare.

[DadWasHere]

I would read that fantasy as "prove how desirable I am, prove you really want me" - but I could be wrong.

Interesting observation but I think my own situation slid down more toward 'prove I am so desirable you would rape me if I don’t surrender to you.... but dont do it if I wont' At least that was my view of it, perhaps if I was a more sexually aggressive person your spin would ring truer to me than mine but I think both versions are on the same slope, and it seems mighty slippery to me.

[BerstieSpotts]

I would say that it's more "prove you can be so sexy to me that I cannot resist you even if I'm really trying/didn't want it in the first place."

That would be my interpretation anyway. I think the way you've interpreted it is much darker but obviously could also be correct.

Either way it's not a fantasy about actual rape.

[DadWasHere]

I would say that it's more "prove you can be so sexy to me that I cannot resist you even if I'm really trying/didn't want it in the first place."

No, there was an early time I thought it was more or less like what you describe, but no. I think what you write is a fairly healthy fantasy/attitude, though it might wear thin unless the fantasy could adapt to your partner getting older. I could live long term with a women who thought as you say, because what women does not want their man to seem sexy to them? On the other hand if I encountered even a whiff of what I went through back then (were I single) the door could not close on my arse fast enough I would be gone so fast.

[DadWasHere]

Damn I keep transposing woman and women... I seriously need to grammar check.

[secretinme]

[garlicvampire]

Secret, I'm going off on a tangent here, but I couldn't let your post pass. I used to have this about violence: it rarely connected with sexual feelings (though sometimes) but was very much about the amount of physical pain I was required to tolerate as a child. Until my mid-forties, I would mentally enact torture situations before going to sleep. Very similar psychological process going on.

This area is one of the very few that was helped with CBT. I imagine you've had your 'thought-stopping' training, as you're clearly aware of the thought processes involved, but just wanted you to know it can work. I ended up replacing the torture scenes with luffly thoughts, first by using hypnotherapy tapes; now with meditation. Every so often, I have to remind myself I've no further need for superhuman pain tolerance, but it's now less than once a week and only for a minute.

I posted upthread that I've replaced my 'rape fantasies', too. I don't think they meant the same to me as to you - but the pain thing, I suspect, did.

Wishing you good luck with this for yourself :)

[VeloWoman]

I just wanted to follow up on what secret and garlic said, it was only after my rape that I started having 'rape' fantasies, although of course the way it happened in my mind was very different to real life. My counsellor told me that it is very normal for victims of rape and sexual assault to go through this process.

It's as though by fantasising about being dominated in a way that you want by someone you want to be with, you are getting back a feeling of control over what happens to you. And women shouldn't be ashamed if they have these thoughts IMO (although if they are distressing or make you want to hurt yourself of course you should seek support to deal with the,), it's never going to mean that you 'wanted it'.

Of course that's all very different to flashbacks of your actual trauma that make you feel like you want to vomit.

Just wanted to add another perspective as to why some women may fantasise about being ravished for want of a better word.

[alexandrafarrow]

VeloWoman - your post makes perfect sense to me and makes me feel less ashamed.