Child support?

[DontCallMePeanut]

OK, this would have gone in AIBU, but I was more interested in a feminist argument about this. Just wondering how you feel about child support?

This has come from the result of a disagreement between myself and mother, in which she feels I should claim child support from xP. Now, I'm uneasy with this. Mainly because I'd rather anything he paid was done willingly, not having to go through the agencies to get it. On top of that, DS wants for nothing, as far as I'm aware. He's clothed, fed, regularly bought small treats (eg, books, trips, toys.) There's just something about child support which, from a father who makes no effort to see his DS, and has spent a total of £85 on him over the past three years, doesn't sit right.

Financially, my income is greater than his, and once I've graduated, my earning potential will be significantly greater than xP's. Any thoughts?

[HerBeX]

Yes, the court merely confirms legally what has already been happening in the day to day life of the family. In fact, they give men more time with their children than they have previously had parenting them, because on the whole even when they are home at the weekends, lots of women still do most of the parenting.

There's a very simple answer to men who complain that they're not getting 50 50 custody. Do 50 50 parenting. Even 30 70 parenting might get you 50 50 custody, because any amount of parenting men do, is vastly over-estimated by courts, men and even the women who live with them, simply because the norm is for them to do so little compared to what women do. So when they do anything at all, they are hailed as mighty conquerors and perfect fathers.

And before the morons jump up and down, of course I'm talking in general terms and there are some extremely honourable exceptions to this. But not enough. There need to be more, for men's own sake as well as women's and children's.

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

Well that is a good point SGM - I was just thinking about my parents when they split they didn't go through courts (CSA wasn't in existence) and we just spent a week at one parent and a week at the other. Perhaps they are the exception.

I am not really sure what I am trying to say. And the more I think about it, the more I think it probably doesn't matter . The fact is that the bias towards women getting custody doesn't happen in the court it happens before the relationships break down.

[HerBeX]

"WOW! I mean, just, WOW. Yes, yes, I was just saying that statistically speaking if both parents are 50% responsible then you'd expect custody decisions to fall equally between the genders. It doesn't though does it?"

No Jenny, it doesn't. And that is for the simple reason, that most men don't step up to the mark and do 50% of their share of parenting, when their children are born.

That's not necessarily always their fault, our society and workplace structures push couples into the no-brainer default position of women doing most of the parenting; but if men are not prepared to make the career sacrifices women are currently forced to, by demanding part time work, job-shares, flexi-time etc., and accepting that their careers are going to stall for a few years, they can't complain with any justice, if they don't get 50 50 custody on the break up of their relationships. If men want 50 50 custody, then they should do 50 50 parenting while they are still living with the mothers of their children. And if they did, I suspect that the divorce rate would plummet.

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

Just to add to SGM's comments. If parents are doing 50-50 care before a break up then it seems to me to be indicative that the relationship was on a fairly even keel before the break up, with some level of mutual respect. Those cases would be less likely to require court or CSA intervention in the first place so wouldn't necessarily appear in the figures/statistics.

[jennyvstheworld]

WOW! I mean, just, WOW. Yes, yes, I was just saying that statistically speaking if both parents are 50% responsible then you'd expect custody decisions to fall equally between the genders. It doesn't though does it?

What really gets me about your post, however, is how quickly you moved from ALL cases to talking about abusive men beating the shit out of their wives as if that was, perhaps, the majority or even quite likely. What horrible and distorted rhetoric you quickly move into! And who said 'abusive men should be allowed contact' anyway? I can't see that anywhere so who are you arguing with? It's actually a little bit twisted.

[twinklypearls]

I do not claim maintenance for my daughter, my feminism influences me because I relied on my ex for money in the past and it allowed him to abuse me. I promised myself that one day I would be independent of him, I have now achieved that.

I do not want to stop him contributing to her life - although he doesn't. If he wishes to save money for her he is very welcome.

As a feminist I learned from my mistakes and have spoken to my daughter about the need to stay away from men who are abusive in any way and fail to meet their family obligations. I also ensured that I chose a reliable loving man as her step father.

[jennyvstheworld]

Yeah, 50% of the responsibility - so in 50% of cases, custody should be awarded to the father, right?

[HerBeX]

Actually I think SGM is right, refusal to support your child is a form of child abuse.

It's such a basic parenting responsibility. If you choose not to do it, there's something very much amiss with your understanding of parenting.

It's about time parents understood that and we stop making excuses for deadbeats.

[organicgardener]

Parents from both sides can have issues and that has to be addressed.

Looking at one perspective doesn't do anything to help solve the problems after a relationship breakdown.

After all, the main concern should be the children.

[Truckrelented]

More than 50% of UK divorces are due to domestic violence?

The figure I've seen is 17%.
60% by male and 40% by females.

Also 30% of male NRPs don't pay maintenance and 31% of female NRPs don't pay maintenance.

I don't think it's just men who are at fault.

[Truckrelented]

There are something like 3 million parents eligible for child maintenance.

Approximately 240,000 of the RP are men,12% of these are widowers, so about 218,000 men are eligible for maintenance

So the NRPs not paying are rather likely to be men aren't they?

[organicgardener]

You've lost me.

Enjoy this thread you're just spitting out rhetoric.

[organicgardener]

"Low income families" recieve government help to ease their financial burden when they are a family.
How does being seperate change that? If an NRP is on minimum wage or genuinely unemployed and in the same situation as he/she was when the couple were together? How does he/she have a sudden jump in income to pay substantially?

And I thought this thread was about child support and not domestic violence?

[floyjoy]

SGM - I totally agree.
It is unfair that the OP should be the one who has to make the choice of whether to pursue support or leave it as it is. There should be a much better system in place alongside some governemnt campaigning to change a culture in which so many excuses are seen as acceptable reasons for not contributing properly to your own child's upbringing and an expectation that significant numbers of NRPs don't provide support.

[Truckrelented]

'And the argument about some women refusing to let their exes see their children is statistically insignificant in relation to the number of women who don't want their ABUSIVE exes anywhere near their children or the number of men who don't pay for their kids.'

I've never seen any statistics for RP stopping access to the NRP have you seen any? Is it on the CSA website?

[floyjoy]

I agree with your mum obviously, as an ideal. You say that "the father who makes no effort to see his DS, and has spent a total of £85 on him over the past three years". If that's his choice and it means you and your DC don't face the threat of any abuse and I can see that that must be healthier for you and might be worth taking on all the financial burden. Only you know the particular pros and cons of pursuing child support in your situation. Seeing all the hard work you're doing to build a future for you and your DC, I guess your mum might be annoyed at the XP contributing nothing.

Agree that employment/unemployment status of NRP is irrelevant in a decision to pursue support - my XP and I have both had spells out of work when contracts have ended and managed to muddle through and get some sense of equity in terms of finance. I am fortunate in that my XP always wanted to support the DCs and I struggle to get my head around the fact some parents don't want to do that.

Congratulations on all that you're doing, BTW.

[organicgardener]

I wasn't refering to individual cases.

You're generalising.

What happens if you'r stuck in the poverty trap as a married couple?

Can you expect to be out of it as a single parent?

And can we refer to NRP's as He/She?

[organicgardener]

That just sounds vindictive.

What are the punishments to a NRP if he/she is poor already?